Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[peteblue]

Thing is, Israel has encouraged the growth of Hamas to divide and conquer the Palestinians by splitting its political powerbase between Fatah and Hamas. This allowed Netanyahu to claim he had no credible and united Palestinian interlocutor to discuss peace with. That ordinary, innocent Palestinians should now pay the price of Israel's deliberate and misguided strategy because Hamas has bitten back is an untenable situation.

Israel will soon be a pariah state. Netanyahu needs to be removed immediately and replaced with people serious about a two-state solution. Then we can be united in finding ways to eliminate Hamas without murdering innocents and recruiting future Hamas fighters for them in the process.

Totally agree, but unfortunately I doubt it will happen…..

 

[peteblue]

This sort of thing, mate.

Things need to be calmed down, not stoked up…..

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Thing is, Israel has encouraged the growth of Hamas to divide and conquer the Palestinians by splitting its political powerbase between Fatah and Hamas. This allowed Netanyahu to claim he had no credible and united Palestinian interlocutor to discuss peace with. That ordinary, innocent Palestinians should now pay the price of Israel's deliberate and misguided strategy because Hamas has bitten back is an untenable situation.

Israel will soon be a pariah state. Netanyahu needs to be removed immediately and replaced with people serious about a two-state solution. Then we can be united in finding ways to eliminate Hamas without murdering innocents and recruiting future Hamas fighters for them in the process.

The issue now is saving as many civilians as possible, that is it. They are caught between two waring factions who are clearly committed to destroying one another.

Endless debates regarding who did what historically isn't going to save these people.

If Israel gets a groundswell to remove the current regime that'd be a hegely positive step if moderates could be found but the reality of that happening is slim at best, especially as they are still burying the dead and mourning for the recent Hamas attack. The US having suffered 9/11 will have sympathy for the Israel gov and so I imagine a pause in fighting and evacuation is the best we can expect/pray for.

 

[Efcjake]

take your pick….

View attachment 233796

Did you read any of them or did you just get angry Pete?

If you had read that independent article for example the following quotes might have stood out to you.

However, the Met Police has said protest groups have not indicated plans to march on Remembrance Sunday on 12 November – although a significant demonstration is expected on the Saturday, known as Armistice Day.

And organisers of the demo have pledged to avoid the Whitehall area where the Centotaph war memorial – the focus of national remembrance events – is located.

The Palestine Solidarity Campaign (PSC) said it would “build for the next national march on November 11”. PCS director ben Jamal said the march on Armistice Day would not be held in Whitehall. “We will be holding a protest elsewhere in London.”

 

[Drico]

The issue now is saving as many civilians as possible, that is it. They are caught between two waring factions who are clearly committed to destroying one another.

Endless debates regarding who did what historically isn't going to save these people.

If Israel gets a groundswell to remove the current regime that'd be a hegely positive step if moderates could be found but the reality of that happening is slim at best, especially as they are still burying the dead and mourning for the recent Hamas attack. The US having suffered 9/11 will have sympathy for the Israel gov and so I imagine a pause in fighting and evacuation is the best we can expect/pray for.

This is what I mean by wringing of hands whilst simultaneously sitting on them.

These crocodile tears will poison the support that people would otherwise give to the Ukrainians. As things stand, people will draw their own conclusions that those of us in the West are supposed to passionately support one group of civilians who have Western political favour - the Ukrainians - while abandoning and ignoring another group of civilians - the Palestinians - who do not.

This kind of double-standard poisons the well. If I were Ukrainian, I would be terrified at what this will inevitably mean for them.

In the absence of a concerted American effort to rein in the headbanger Israeli government who are hugely culpable for much of what has gone on, then why would we buy the US/EU line on Ukraine? I certainly don't. It's massive hypocrisy and it's corrosive.

 

[DrEFC]

Don’t want to distract from the main issue here but under the Geneva convention it’s not illegal to use smoke rounds (that contain WP).

Smoke rounds are not classified as incendiary under the GC.

Not distracting! Being fully educated is always the way forward

 

[Efcjake]

One question. Why is Egypt blocking the exit ?…….

No you don't just get to hand wave away the fact that you were just blaming Hamas for not letting them leave.

Now you've been confronted with the facts and you're moving the goal posts.

What does it matter WHY Egypt is blocking the exit?

The entire discussion was about the fact that they cannot leave to the south as Israel is directing them to while at the same time bombing that route out.

You're getting shown up all over the place here.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

The Israelis are also cancelling 18,000 work permits for citizens of Gaza, and have announced via the government press office that said citizens will be deported back into an active warzone.

I would expect whatever concessions the Israelis make to be very minimal, indeed.

I think now that they have Gaza city surrounded and all exits/entrances controlled they will use ceasefires to try and move the remaining civpop south, leaving only Hamas holed in their tunnels like rats.

 

[Efcjake]

Excellent, so no problem then……

But didn't stop you taking the bait hook, line, and sinker did it?

You can't even see how they manipulate you. It's embarrassing.

 

[Efcjake]

Never seen it, if they have put out a false report regarding the marches and Remembrance Sunday they should indeed be punished…..

Or you could actually read the articles instead of getting fuming at the headlines

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Traitors one and all

An atrocious organisation that hates the man on the street and serves a privileged few.

 

[Martin Alvito]

One question. Why is Egypt blocking the exit ?…….

Three reasons. First, if they let the Gazans in, they're permanently Egyptian. The Israelis will never allow them back. Congratulations, you now have a homeless crisis of two million, half of them kids. Realize that when the European countries take in refugees, they normally agree to take in tens of thousands at a stretch each, which is manageable. Sure, Poland has a milion and a half Ukrainian refugees. They also have a GDP that's 75% greater than Egypt's, and a third of the population. They can absorb the costs. Germany has a million Ukrainian refugees. Similar reason.

Two, Egypt would be pilloried by the Arab world for caving to Israel on this issue, because everyone knows the Gazans can never go back once displaced. Many Gazans and their ancestors were already displaced from their homes once. The entire Arab world remains very angry about that event. For them, it's a "never again."

Three, that lets Hamas in, and Egypt's government very much does not want their own version of Hezbollah within their borders. Let's put it this way. If you're Egypt, and you can prevent Iran from having a foothold in your politics, you do that.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Criticising her is more important than worrying about boosting her profile.

Starving them of media oxygen is more effective in this media landscape. If somebody brings them up in person, go to town. Doing it online just helps them.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Three reasons. First, if they let the Gazans in, they're permanently Egyptian. The Israelis will never allow them back. Congratulations, you now have a homeless crisis of two million, half of them kids. Realize that when the European countries take in refugees, they normally agree to take in tens of thousands at a stretch each, which is manageable. Sure, Poland has a milion and a half Ukrainian refugees. They also have a GDP that's 75% greater than Egypt's, and a third of the population. They can absorb the costs. Germany has a million Ukrainian refugees. Similar reason.

Two, Egypt would be pilloried by the Arab world for caving to Israel on this issue, because everyone knows the Gazans can never go back once displaced. Many Gazans and their ancestors were already displaced from their homes once. The entire Arab world remains very angry about that event. For them, it's a "never again."

Three, that lets Hamas in, and Egypt's government very much does not want their own version of Hezbollah within their borders. Let's put it this way. If you're Egypt, and you can prevent Iran from having a foothold in your politics, you do that.

Also Hamas are aligned with the Muslim brotherhood. Egypt has only just got rid of these wrong-uns and I’m sure they don’t fancy round 2.

 

[davek]

Starving them of media oxygen is more effective in this media landscape. If somebody brings them up in person, go to town. Doing it online just helps them.

Does;t matter if tv companies keep giving them air time...and she has momentum with that.

No, highlighting her and her racism is the right policy.