Current Affairs Israel is an apartheid state

[Mutzo Nutzo]

That sounds like a comprehensive 2 state solution where both peoples can live in peace a security.

Thing is Israel’s settlement activity has deliberately changed the facts on the ground so there is no space for a Palestinian state.

For the benefit of some here Israel did that not Hamas and with out a peace plan violence is going perpetuate.

Hamas are a terror organisation but the reason why there is no peace ? Blame must lie with Israel and the settlers

Then by your reasoning there is no hope?

Israel will continue to kill Palestinians and Hamas will continue to kill Israelis?

No peace, no solution just continual bloodletting.

Israelis are going nowhere, Palestinians are going nowhere - they have to find a way somehow to co-exist peacefully.

What’s your take on a solution then?

 

[Martin Alvito]

And of course this is the issue, nobody wants Hamas as all they do is cause trouble…..

It's not that black and white. If the mission was just, "Kill fifty thousand members of a group you consider a terrorist group located in open terrain in 1980s-style camps in North Africa," then Bibi would have dialed up Biden and asked, "Do you mind?" Biden would have said, "Sure, I could use a political win back home right now," and that would be the end of this.

Unfortunately, the Israel-Palestine issue has a messy history, Hamas is located in very problematic terrain, they have hostages, they have civilian shields and they aren't stupid. Counter-insurgency is always a mess, it's much more difficult in urban (or mountainous/jungle) terrain and collateral damage just breeds more terrorists, as @Mutzo Nutzo is saying. By the usual 10:1 rule, killing ten thousand Gazan civilians means Israel has only accomplished doubling the present size of Hamas in a few years, even if they kill every current member of Hamas and never kill another civilian from this moment.

The problem here isn't just that what the Israeli government is doing is cruel beyond human imagining. It's also self-defeating, and not just on the terrorism side of the fence. It's costing Israel in Western media. CNN was unequivocally pro-Israel when compared to other mainstream US outlets from October 7 forward. Now, they're running things that only received media oxygen in other outlets. The slideshow at the top of NBC's page is entirely comprised of rubble and Gazan suffering, and they started out charting a middle ground. The NYT and WaPo are starting to join that party. Sooner or later, ABC and CBS are likely to follow, and MSNBC has shifted from pro-Israel to avoiding the issue.

Bibi couldn't ask for better occupants of the Oval Office and State chairs right now, in the sense that they're among the last people in American politics likely to turn on him, but the media pressure is now mounting. The unfiltered stuff people get from places like Instagram and Twitter is (and already was) incredibly ugly, which is why young people have already turned on Israel here. The worst part is that all of this was entirely predictable from the outset.

 

[Toffeeslam]

Then by your reasoning there is no hope?

Israel will continue to kill Palestinians and Hamas will continue to kill Israelis?

No peace, no solution just continual bloodletting.

Israelis are going nowhere, Palestinians are going nowhere - they have to find a way somehow to co-exist peacefully.

What’s your take on a solution then?

We need to bounce the extremists on both sides and Israel told by the US that the settlements need to be rolled back.

Elections in the Palestinian areas for a new mandate that supports a two state solution ( Abbas and his cronies are weak and corrupt) and the most important point Objectively from the Americans as they are the only country Israelis and Arabs would listen too, without this we won’t see peace.

Negotiations with all responsible sponsors putting the diplomatic pressure for compromise among the actors involved.

Make Jerusalem an open city state governed by the UN

A peace keeping force with teeth to protect any new Palestinian state and Israel from those who want to bring the whole thing down.

 

[peteblue]

It's not that black and white. If the mission was just, "Kill fifty thousand members of a group you consider a terrorist group located in open terrain in 1980s-style camps in North Africa," then Bibi would have dialed up Biden and asked, "Do you mind?" Biden would have said, "Sure, I could use a political win back home right now," and that would be the end of this.

Unfortunately, the Israel-Palestine issue has a messy history, Hamas is located in very problematic terrain, they have hostages, they have civilian shields and they aren't stupid. Counter-insurgency is always a mess, it's much more difficult in urban (or mountainous/jungle) terrain and collateral damage just breeds more terrorists, as @Mutzo Nutzo is saying. By the usual 10:1 rule, killing ten thousand Gazan civilians means Israel has only accomplished doubling the present size of Hamas in a few years, even if they kill every current member of Hamas and never kill another civilian from this moment.

The problem here isn't just that what the Israeli government is doing is cruel beyond human imagining. It's also self-defeating, and not just on the terrorism side of the fence. It's costing Israel in Western media. CNN was unequivocally pro-Israel when compared to other mainstream US outlets from October 7 forward. Now, they're running things that only received media oxygen in other outlets. The slideshow at the top of NBC's page is entirely comprised of rubble and Gazan suffering, and they started out charting a middle ground. The NYT and WaPo are starting to join that party. Sooner or later, ABC and CBS are likely to follow, and MSNBC has shifted from pro-Israel to avoiding the issue.

Bibi couldn't ask for better occupants of the Oval Office and State chairs right now, in the sense that they're among the last people in American politics likely to turn on him, but the media pressure is now mounting. The unfiltered stuff people get from places like Instagram and Twitter is (and already was) incredibly ugly, which is why young people have already turned on Israel here. The worst part is that all of this was entirely predictable from the outset.

Indeed…..

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

We need to bounce the extremists on both sides and Israel told by the US that the settlements need to be rolled back.

Elections in the Palestinian areas for a new mandate that supports a two state solution ( Abbas and his cronies are weak and corrupt) and the most important point Objectively from the Americans as they are the only country Israelis and Arabs would listen too, without this we won’t see peace.

Negotiations with all responsible sponsors putting the diplomatic pressure for compromise among the actors involved.

Make Jerusalem an open city state governed by the UN

A peace keeping force with teeth to protect any new Palestinian state and Israel from those who want to bring the whole thing down.

Some great points there - makes a lot of sense.

The only major sticking point I see is Jerusalem. Spiritually and geo-politically it means so much to both Israelis and Palestinian Arabs but also to Christian faiths (orthodox, Catholic, Druze etc). I don’t believe the UN is the right authority to maintain control. I see the UN as weak, fractured, and ineffective. Maybe a new international body needs to be brought into being to oversee this most special city.

 

[peteblue]

Some great points there - makes a lot of sense.

The only major sticking point I see is Jerusalem. Spiritually and geo-politically it means so much to both Israelis and Palestinian Arabs but also to Christian faiths (orthodox, Catholic, Druze etc). I don’t believe the UN is the right authority to maintain control. I see the UN as weak, fractured, and ineffective. Maybe a new international body needs to be brought into being to oversee this most special city.

It always been an issue, Jordan was originally given authority over it before 67, but perhaps it needs to be treated more like the Vatican City, independent but with the body you suggest overseeing it……

 

[Bluerover]

Bloody hell, was Bolton interviewed whilst at a Halloween party as D*ck Tracy?

Just a note on him actually, he was the weirdo that briefly led UKIP after Brexit made them irrelevant, and is an outright Islamophobe. He's also not a former 'British Army Officer', he was in the regular army as an NCO and later got a TA commission. He's the one who left his Russian wife for some model in her 20s and that was the scandal that caused him getting the boot as leader.

Why did he get the OBE ??

 

[peteblue]

We need to bounce the extremists on both sides and Israel told by the US that the settlements need to be rolled back.

Elections in the Palestinian areas for a new mandate that supports a two state solution ( Abbas and his cronies are weak and corrupt) and the most important point Objectively from the Americans as they are the only country Israelis and Arabs would listen too, without this we won’t see peace.

Negotiations with all responsible sponsors putting the diplomatic pressure for compromise among the actors involved.

Make Jerusalem an open city state governed by the UN

A peace keeping force with teeth to protect any new Palestinian state and Israel from those who want to bring the whole thing down.

Sorry I posted before reading this and your comment about Jerusalem……

 

[Bluerover]

Some great points there - makes a lot of sense.

The only major sticking point I see is Jerusalem. Spiritually and geo-politically it means so much to both Israelis and Palestinian Arabs but also to Christian faiths (orthodox, Catholic, Druze etc). I don’t believe the UN is the right authority to maintain control. I see the UN as weak, fractured, and ineffective. Maybe a new international body needs to be brought into being to oversee this most special city.

Druze are neither Christian nor Moslem. Their faith is s mux of a lor of different ideas raking bits of these two faiths bur also Hinduism and other Eastern beliefs.

Druze believe in reincarnation.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

He always pops up with something beyond extreme this nut!

 

[Blue 1]

He always pops up with something beyond extreme this nut!

https://twitter.com/hashtag/murderburgers?src=hashtag_click

He's an utter see you next Tuesday.

 

[tsubaki]

He's an utter see you next Tuesday.

It’s all for the grift as well - a few months ago I was hanging around by London Bridge and saw him plus his hangers on demonstrate outside News International.

I say demonstrate but all it consisted of was five minutes of filmed shouting, then they sodded off into the station.

 

[DrEFC]

I wish you would stop making things up then declaring ‘that’s what you think’…try reading what I write not what you think I write…..

I've read what you have written. Justification via, 'how would you feel' for this disproportionate attack.
There's an absence of you writing about Uyghurs, so when others haven't posted about Uyghurs, but have about Palestine- what really are you implying, by pointing it out?

 

[wm02]

I've read what you have written. Justification via, 'how would you feel' for this disproportionate attack.
There's an absence of you writing about Uyghurs, so when others haven't posted about Uyghurs, but have about Palestine- what really are you implying, by pointing it out?

Might be a bit off-topic but happened to visit the White House a couple weeks ago and proponents of the East Turkestan independence movement were in good numbers on other side of the fence. Had to do a quick Google as I didn’t recognize the flag and my kids were quizzing me

 

[tsubaki]

Some great points there - makes a lot of sense.

The only major sticking point I see is Jerusalem. Spiritually and geo-politically it means so much to both Israelis and Palestinian Arabs but also to Christian faiths (orthodox, Catholic, Druze etc). I don’t believe the UN is the right authority to maintain control. I see the UN as weak, fractured, and ineffective. Maybe a new international body needs to be brought into being to oversee this most special city.

The problem is that any authority for Jerusalem would have to deal with the problem there, which are the settlers.