Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[peteblue]

The ROI didn’t suffer? I’ve heard everything now.

To nowhere near the extent of NI and mainland U.K. and the EU had no involvement at all.....

 

[peteblue]

But that is the problem for the UK, the border issue is no 1 priority in negotiations i think the UK would love to kick the an down the road.

You make a good point mate, but its pie in the sky, it would be ideal if a bi lateral agreement could be made, but it cant simply because the ROI are in the EU and will remain so, Ireland wont leave not in a million years. Both markets to different extents are dependent on each other.

I think the economic argument is a narrow one, its part of it certainly, but the border and complex debate more then an economic one.

So because the ROI is in the EU it has to follow the diktats from Brussels. The U.K. is still in the EU. Many countries in the EU, certainly the eastern ones, have told the EU to get lost over immigration targets etc, because it effects their country. Both the U.K. and the ROI should tell the EU to back off and allow us to agree a sensible way forward without them putting their agenda items forward......this is not something that the ROI can allow the other 26 countries to have a view on, they didn’t ask for this and it’s not their fault but they cannot just wash their hands and leave it to the EU.......

 

[Ruairi77]

So because the ROI is in the EU it has to follow the diktats from Brussels. The U.K. is still in the EU. Many countries in the EU, certainly the eastern ones, have told the EU to get lost over immigration targets etc, because it effects their country. Both the U.K. and the ROI should tell the EU to back off and allow us to agree a sensible way forward without them putting their agenda items forward......this is not something that the ROI can allow the other 26 countries to have a view on, they didn’t ask for this and it’s not their fault but they cannot just wash their hands and leave it to the EU.......

Why should Ireland tell the EU to back off. We don't want two trading bocks on the island. The EU is supporting us on this.
It's almost like playground stuff. England is taking the huff because they can't steamroll Ireland any more.

Honestly Pete, look at it, tory hardliners backed by fringe lunatic unionists trying to jam through what they want but this time it's not working.

 

[Ron Swanson]

To nowhere near the extent of NI and mainland U.K. and the EU had no involvement at all.....

Even if we put aside the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The ROI suffered for years with tourism and investment because the troubles were seen internationally as an 'Irish' problem. To this day, the average joe in other countries outside of the British isles makes little differentiation between NI and ROI. Up until the mid-nineties Ireland was a poor country by European standards. Political stability on the island was one of the reasons for the Celtic tiger (along with extensive EU funding).

And if we're being pedantic here, the UK and ROI were in the EU at the height of the troubles. And EU membership was one of the factors that contributed to a warming of UK-ROI relations and later was the main financial contributor to peace initiatives.

So because the ROI is in the EU it has to follow the diktats from Brussels. The U.K. is still in the EU. Many countries in the EU, certainly the eastern ones, have told the EU to get lost over immigration targets etc, because it effects their country. Both the U.K. and the ROI should tell the EU to back off and allow us to agree a sensible way forward without them putting their agenda items forward......this is not something that the ROI can allow the other 26 countries to have a view on, they didn’t ask for this and it’s not their fault but they cannot just wash their hands and leave it to the EU.......

And what happens when ROI and UK have a special border arrangement and the likes of Lithuania, Spain, Poland, Romania and Greece start questioning why they must have permanent, manned customs and movement points with other Non-single market countries?

And I still put it to you, how does the UK control its borders (remember the Farage poster) while keeping an open border in Ireland? How do they stop what will be illegal immigration from happening if there are no passport checks on the border?

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I think I explained, twice in fact, that I have not suggested that the ROI rejoins the U.K. I suggested that there may well come a time when ‘economically’ we get together, and I would add, as two Sovereign nations.

There are at least 6 Million CCTV cameras in the U.K., in schools, hospitals etc, another camera on a road really shouldn’t provide an excuse for further armed struggle or a grievance of human rights....and no I see no reason at all for cameras at a border, considering they are probably already in place on access roads in both countries anyway......

Pete as well as clearly being ignorant of Irish history and sentiment you are being incredibly hypocritical here. You say Brexit is all about taking back control of your nation away front this European super state yet you somehow think we would accept giving up our own independence and rejoicing with our long standing historic enemy? Are you mad? You may have clarified what you meant in subsequent posts but I quoted you directly referencing "rejoining". Even if your meaning is only an economic one we all now know that any form of economic unity requires trade laws and customs to be harmonised.

On your last point - No it is only you and Nigel Farage talking about border cameras. The Irish and British governments have all very clearly come out in saying no physical infrastructure of any kind at the border. So tell me does your idea still work?

 

[Ron Swanson]

Let's not forget the Yougov poll that showed 81% of leave voters who said destabilizing the peace process is a price worth paying for Brexit (it was 87% among Tory leave voters). What message does that send to the people of NI and ROI about British desires to maintain peace on the island?

 

[electricblue]

Even if we put aside the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The ROI suffered for years with tourism and investment because the troubles were seen internationally as an 'Irish' problem. To this day, the average joe in other countries outside of the British isles makes little differentiation between NI and ROI. Up until the mid-nineties Ireland was a poor country by European standards. Political stability on the island was one of the reasons for the Celtic tiger (along with extensive EU funding).

And if we're being pedantic here, the UK and ROI were in the EU at the height of the troubles. And EU membership was one of the factors that contributed to a warming of UK-ROI relations and later was the main financial contributor to peace initiatives.



And what happens when ROI and UK have a special border arrangement and the likes of Lithuania, Spain, Poland, Romania and Greece start questioning why they must have permanent, manned customs and movement points with other Non-single market countries?

And I still put it to you, how does the UK control its borders (remember the Farage poster) while keeping an open border in Ireland? How do they stop what will be illegal immigration from happening if there are no passport checks on the border?

The biggest loss of life in one day in the Troubles, no one has ever been prosecuted, and for some unexplained reason our supposed bestie buddies the British government are still refusing to release documentation which could lead to convictions, despite multiple requests from the Irish government to do so.

The economic deprivation of border towns, etc, etc.

But apparently the 26 counties weren't really affected..

 

[Neiler]

So because the ROI is in the EU it has to follow the diktats from Brussels. The U.K. is still in the EU. Many countries in the EU, certainly the eastern ones, have told the EU to get lost over immigration targets etc, because it effects their country. Both the U.K. and the ROI should tell the EU to back off and allow us to agree a sensible way forward without them putting their agenda items forward......this is not something that the ROI can allow the other 26 countries to have a view on, they didn’t ask for this and it’s not their fault but they cannot just wash their hands and leave it to the EU.......

I think the ROI have dictated the issue to the EU as a member state and the EU has supported Ireland by dictating the agenda to the U.K. Why would Ireland tell the EU to back of mate, ROI have an agenda and goals here. The U.K. also has agenda and goals. Ireland’s agenda is best served by having Europe as the enforcer and for the U.K. not be allowed make progress on other UK Brexit issues until the border issue is resolved.

It’s just smart politics by the ROI for the people of Ireland North and South.

 

[Joey66]

I think the ROI have dictated the issue to the EU as a member state and the EU has supported Ireland by dictating the agenda to the U.K. Why would Ireland tell the EU to back of mate, ROI have an agenda and goals here. The U.K. also has agenda and goals. Ireland’s agenda is best served by having Europe as the enforcer and for the U.K. not be allowed make progress on other UK Brexit issues until the border issue is resolved.

It’s just smart politics by the ROI for the people of Ireland North and South.

The south want no border as the same with the North and the UK - only the EU - surprising when they have sat back and watched an invasion of migrants into European countries within the EU ?
They are trying to wreck the Good Friday agreement which they had no say in or negotiated it in any way!

 

[roydo]

The south want no border as the same with the North and the UK - only the EU - surprising when they have sat back and watched an invasion of migrants into European countries within the EU ?
They are trying to wreck the Good Friday agreement which they had no say in or negotiated it in any way!

What? The EU are trying to wreck the GFA?

Any collatoral damage to the GFA is laid firmly at the feet of folk who voted Leave without even realising the issue would be an issue when they voted.

And dont even try to pretend you considered it. I didnt give it a thought.

 

[Neiler]

The south want no border as the same with the North and the UK - only the EU - surprising when they have sat back and watched an invasion of migrants into European countries within the EU ?
They are trying to wreck the Good Friday agreement which they had no say in or negotiated it in any way!

Are you saying the EU are enforcing a border mate?

 

[peteblue]

I think the ROI have dictated the issue to the EU as a member state and the EU has supported Ireland by dictating the agenda to the U.K. Why would Ireland tell the EU to back of mate, ROI have an agenda and goals here. The U.K. also has agenda and goals. Ireland’s agenda is best served by having Europe as the enforcer and for the U.K. not be allowed make progress on other UK Brexit issues until the border issue is resolved.

It’s just smart politics by the ROI for the people of Ireland North and South.

But the Border issue cannot be resolved before we know the future trading relationship. But hey, the ROI must know what it is doing......

 

[peteblue]

Pete as well as clearly being ignorant of Irish history and sentiment you are being incredibly hypocritical here. You say Brexit is all about taking back control of your nation away front this European super state yet you somehow think we would accept giving up our own independence and rejoicing with our long standing historic enemy? Are you mad? You may have clarified what you meant in subsequent posts but I quoted you directly referencing "rejoining". Even if your meaning is only an economic one we all now know that any form of economic unity requires trade laws and customs to be harmonised.

On your last point - No it is only you and Nigel Farage talking about border cameras. The Irish and British governments have all very clearly come out in saying no physical infrastructure of any kind at the border. So tell me does your idea still work?

I think I was asked about cameras and I said there should be no cameras at a border, but please show me where I’m wrong. And if we are talking about Irish history, of which I would bet I know as well as you do, but I would not call you ignorant, can you please explain why, when ROI left the U.K. did the UK ensure that all future trading and common travel was made as easy as possible. The same thing is happening now, the U.K. is declaring its independence from the EU, yet the ROI and the EU, not the individual countries mind, are trying to make this as difficult as possible.....why ?.......and I see that you agree with me that ‘the Irish and British governments have all clearly come out in saying no physical infrastructure of any kind at the border’, which is what I have said consistently through this thread.....I don’t wish to see any kind of border, so again for the thousandth time, JUST WHO IS IT THAT WANTS A HARD BORDER.......

 

[roydo]

..I don’t wish to see any kind of border, so again for the thousandth time, JUST WHO IS IT THAT WANTS A HARD BORDER.......

People who dont want freedom of movement between the UK and the EU I gathered.

 

[peteblue]

Even if we put aside the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. The ROI suffered for years with tourism and investment because the troubles were seen internationally as an 'Irish' problem. To this day, the average joe in other countries outside of the British isles makes little differentiation between NI and ROI. Up until the mid-nineties Ireland was a poor country by European standards. Political stability on the island was one of the reasons for the Celtic tiger (along with extensive EU funding).

And if we're being pedantic here, the UK and ROI were in the EU at the height of the troubles. And EU membership was one of the factors that contributed to a warming of UK-ROI relations and later was the main financial contributor to peace initiatives.



And what happens when ROI and UK have a special border arrangement and the likes of Lithuania, Spain, Poland, Romania and Greece start questioning why they must have permanent, manned customs and movement points with other Non-single market countries?

And I still put it to you, how does the UK control its borders (remember the Farage poster) while keeping an open border in Ireland? How do they stop what will be illegal immigration from happening if there are no passport checks on the border?

I’m sure that everyone is very sorry for the reduced tourism for ROI. The EU played no part in U.K. ROI relations, and the EU suffered no deaths or bombings as a result. Why are you worrying about Lithuania, Spain, Poland, Romania and Greece borders, all of which are porous, or are you so conditioned by EU law that you have forgotten what your own country is about.

The U.K. will control its borders as it wishes, with immigration as it wishes, all of which can be done via a myriad of means. Your concern should be about the border in question yet you are going on about Farage and Spain and Romania. Forget them and their individual issues, concentrate purely on what you need in Ireland to make the people of Ireland safe and prosperous......