Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

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Charlie Sweet said:
As an aside I was chatting to some friends the other day and a fair few seem to know of - or hear tales of - various legal challenges being prepared to stop Brexit.

The thinking is if it's a Hard Brexit as one scenario envisages then an Irish citizen in the North is having having their rights guaranteed by the GFA massively compromised.

The European Court of Justice would be the arbitrator of that legal challenge (as set out in the GFA) and so the whole of Brexit could be thrown out and the UK would.not leave in March 2019 after all.

Thoughts?
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I think this was raised about a year ago, it may even be in the EU thread. I can’t really see the U.K. accepting an ECJ decision that says we can’t leave, can you.........
 
peteblue said:
I think this was raised about a year ago, it may even be in the EU thread. I can’t really see the U.K. accepting an ECJ decision that says we can’t leave, can you.........
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The UK is currently legally bound to follow the ECJ so it would not have a choice.

The Hard Brexit scenario makes this viable in my opinion.
 
Charlie Sweet said:
Does your 'solution' involve cameras at the border?



Suggesting the Republic rejoins the UK is the same as telling a black South African to hand their coubtry back to the white Apartheid leaders.
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I think I explained, twice in fact, that I have not suggested that the ROI rejoins the U.K. I suggested that there may well come a time when ‘economically’ we get together, and I would add, as two Sovereign nations.

There are at least 6 Million CCTV cameras in the U.K., in schools, hospitals etc, another camera on a road really shouldn’t provide an excuse for further armed struggle or a grievance of human rights....and no I see no reason at all for cameras at a border, considering they are probably already in place on access roads in both countries anyway......
 
peteblue said:
So what would you do to resolve this.....
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If I am honest, I think the British government is going to unravel mate. I think politically their is very little will or conviction amongst the Broad base of political s in Britain for Brexit. It’s been mandated but politicians will want to enact it as much as a repo man wants to evict a single mother with three kids. The crux for me is that the yes vote was so left field that it dictated the resignation of a politicians with a high calibre and left a massively complex problem to a group of the dregs of politicians who never would have got near power without. Certainly I believe the British government of the lowest calibre of politicians it has been for a while.

So what would I do, in short from an Irish perspective I think we have to sit tight and watch the Britain government implode and that is the best case scenario for Britain, that an aLternative government is put in place.

Two scenarios, if May stays in charge the EU are going to rain fire and Brimstone down on the U.K. Brexit will be dictated to the U.K. and it will be hard, she is trying and keepin no one happy, domestically, in NI, political partners, ROI, Europe, ultimately her politicking or hard Brexit will lead to her down fall, hopefully before a hard Brexit for the UKs sake.
 
Neiler said:
If I am honest, I think the British government is going to unravel mate. I think politically their is very little will or conviction amongst the Broad base of political s in Britain for Brexit. It’s been mandated but politicians will want to enact it as much as a repo man wants to evict a single mother with three kids. The crux for me is that the yes vote was so left field that it dictated the resignation of a politicians with a high calibre and left a massively complex problem to a group of the dregs of politicians who never would have got near power without. Certainly I believe the British government of the lowest calibre of politicians it has been for a while.

So what would I do, in short from an Irish perspective I think we have to sit tight and watch the Britain government implode.
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I agree regarding the quality of politicians, but the government won’t implode even with the remainers acting in the way they are. We will exit the EU, and this issue of the border still needs to be addressed. I understand the ROI political point of view, but this will not be resolved by shouting at the U.K. who actually want this resolved for the best interests of all on the island. The ROI should try shouting at the EU......but I would say that wouldn’t I....
 
Ultimately I see an alternative government getting in elected on the platform of a very watered down Brexit, essentially what will happen, it will be Brexit it name, but pretty much things staying the same and some hard sanctions on Britain and Britain making significant concessions. Brexit will be a vehicle for some quasi outside/inside U.K. in the EU.

On the Irish border question NI isn’t important to the Uk essentially imo, they ultimately won’t let it leverage Brexit negotiations broadly so I believe they will be dictated to by the ROI and Europe. Some kind of special status will exist and there will be a soft border between NI and main land Britain as opposed to ROI in my opinion. This will expedite once the DUP loose power in England.

(This is part of the post above I posted half way through by accident)
 
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hullefc said:
What the likes of Rees Mogg, Johnson and the DUP et al can't stand is that the Irish government is acting with authority and determination to protect their interests. Hence his childish outburst in the Belfast Newsletter, 'The leading Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has launched a fierce attack on the tactics of Dublin and Brussels over the Irish border. Writing in today’s News Letter, Mr Rees-Mogg accuses the Irish government of “irresponsible, vote-chasing immaturity” in its joint approach with the EU".
The message is crystal clear once the Irish stand up for themselves and don't kowtow to the demands that suit the UK government they are castigated. 'Irresponsible' to not want a border on the island of Ireland. 'Irresponsible' to not want the Good Friday Agreement rode roughshod over. 'Irresponsible' to stand up for the 71% who voted for the Good Friday Agreement. 'Irresponsible' for protecting Irish citizens' rights as enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. 'Irresponsible' to hold May to her December promises. When she said that Northern Ireland would stay in the customs union and the single market. Along with, it would be up to the Stormont parliament to decide whether there was a border in the Irish Sea or not. The DUP don't have the maths to stop a border in the Irish Sea being voted for, hence their pulling back from wanting the assembly to convene. They think this buys them a bit of breathing space. But the chickens are coming home to roost.

For the likes of Rees Mogg it is fine for the UK to stand up for 'what is wants'. But the moment the Irish exert the same they are deemed 'irresponsible'. You just couldn't make up such barefaced stupidity and hypocrisy. Rees Mogg's et al vision of leaving the EU, has hit the hard light of day, and they will threaten the Irish with a hard border and renege of anything and everything to get their way.
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Post of the day.

Pity he didn't write that piece in the Irish News..
 
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Neiler said:
Ultimately I see an alternative government getting in elected on the platform of a very watered down Brexit, essentially what will happen, it will be Brexit it name, but pretty much things staying the same and some hard sanctions on Britain and Britain making significant concessions. Brexit will be a vehicle for some quasi outside/inside U.K. in the EU.

On the Irish border question NI isn’t important to the Uk essentially imo, they ultimately won’t let it leverage Brexit negotiations broadly so I believe they will be dictated to by the ROI and Europe. Some kind of special status will exist and their will be a soft border between NI and main land Britain as opposed to ROI in my opinion. This will expedite once the DUP loose power in England.

(This is part of the post above I posted half way through by accident)
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This is possible, and I believe what the EU may well be trying to achieve through use of this issue, but it would be the worst of all outcomes for the U.K. and I’m not sure why anyone would commit political suicide........
 
peteblue said:
I agree regarding the quality of politicians, but the government won’t implode even with the remainers acting in the way they are. We will exit the EU, and this issue of the border still needs to be addressed. I understand the ROI political point of view, but this will not be resolved by shouting at the U.K. who actually want this resolved for the best interests of all on the island. The ROI should try shouting at the EU......but I would say that wouldn’t I....
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I think the UK are massively surprised that the NI question is as key to whole process as it is to be honest, I also think they don’t like the fact it’s top of the agenda before any other progress can be made.

I certsinly think the UK mean no harm and would like to maintain the status quo in NI, however May is making a dogs dinner of it, making agreements with the EU/ROI then reassuring Unionists of something else. Very public statements about complex issues. This is self serving to keep her government alive, but ultimately she is antagonizing everyone and creating bad will and tensions in communities. It will be the sword she will fall on, either by a hard Brexit or the DUP bringing down the government. To be honest I think she will shaft the DUP and the soft border (it definitely won’t be called a border) will exist between NI and main land U.K., concessions will be made to appease the uninionist community in the north of course.
 
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peteblue said:
This is possible, and I believe what the EU may well be trying to achieve through use of this issue, but it would be the worst of all outcomes for the U.K. and I’m not sure why anyone would commit political suicide........
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Of course they are the ROI has an agenda so does Europe, I think they are aligned on the border issue and consequences, but the EU are flexing their muscles and setting a tone for negotiation with the issue that’s just sensible really.

I think if there was an election in the U.K., and say Labour stood on a very soft Brexit platform, I think they would be strongly mandated, I think the general public are a lot more informed about the practical consequences of Brexit then they were pre referedam.
 
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peteblue said:
I think I explained, twice in fact, that I have not suggested that the ROI rejoins the U.K. I suggested that there may well come a time when ‘economically’ we get together, and I would add, as two Sovereign nations.

There are at least 6 Million CCTV cameras in the U.K., in schools, hospitals etc, another camera on a road really shouldn’t provide an excuse for further armed struggle or a grievance of human rights....and no I see no reason at all for cameras at a border, considering they are probably already in place on access roads in both countries anyway......
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Another camera? Have you any idea how many border crossings there are? I can absolutely assure you that there aren’t cameras at many of the border crossings currently, if any. On border crossings, I have seen signs for ‘northern ireland’ That are riddled with bullets and sprayed with FTQ. Any unmanned cctv would be sabotaged as quick as it was erected.

Also, erecting cctv in remote countryside is surely more of a logistical challenge than at a hospital or school.

As for the excuse part, terrorists arent the most rational bunch. Symbolism plays a massive role in ni politics. Anything but a frictionless, unmanned border will be seen as a threat and call to arms.
 
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