Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Cork Evertonian]

It was in bad taste.....

Sure no worries.Although im not sure about ROI rejoining the UK.I would prefer that Ireland exists as an independent nation, from both London and Brussels.I would actually be in favour of Ireland leaving the EU.So if Brexit works out well for the UK, then i can see a lot of people here saying, yeah let's just tell Brussels to go and do one.

As for Northern Ireland.I think a possible future for NI, would be for it to exist as an independent state from both the UK and ROI.I think there is still a lot of hurdles to jump, before a united Ireland becomes feasible.

 

[electricblue]

It's been quite an education reading the last 2 pages.

Firstly, apparently Britain has actually "helped Ireland whenever needed" according to one poster.

Shame about the 1 million people who starved to death during the famine because help from their own government was not forthcoming, despite the fact that we were supposedly all part of the same country then. And shame about the other 1 million people who were forced to emigrate to avoid starvation.

Secondly, apparently it is only "bigots" that are preventing Ireland re-joining the UK. 5 million people is a hell of a lot of bigots. And of course there no bigots preventing our country and people being re-united.

You couldn't make this patronising guff up.

 

[peteblue]

Sure no worries.Although im not sure about ROI rejoining the UK.I would prefer that Ireland exists as an independent nation, from both London and Brussels.I would actually be in favour of Ireland leaving the EU.So if Brexit works out well for the UK, then i can see a lot of people here saying, yeah let's just tell Brussels to go and do one.

As for Northern Ireland.I think a possible future for NI, would be for it to exist as an independent state from both the UK and ROI.I think there is still a lot of hurdles to jump, before a united Ireland becomes feasible.

I didn’t mean rejoining politically, just economically and technically if you ever left the EU. I agree with you that if Brexit works out, this would give the ROI both the confidence and the economic security to say goodbye to the EU. I also think that the U.K. as we have known it will change. We have had devolution and that will continue, slowly, but always with the certainty that the other nations will always bale out any one in trouble. I think we have an opportunity to revisit the relationships within our islands in the future as old grievances fade in the memory or are buried in a grave.......

 

[Harryflashman]

I didn’t mean rejoining politically, just economically and technically if you ever left the EU. I agree with you that if Brexit works out....

Based purely on the way the negotiations are going we all need to keep hoping and praying on that one I’d think .

 

[peteblue]

It's been quite an education reading the last 2 pages.

Firstly, apparently Britain has actually "helped Ireland whenever needed" according to one poster.

Shame about the 1 million people who starved to death during the famine because help from their own government was not forthcoming, despite the fact that we were supposedly all part of the same country then. And shame about the other 1 million people who were forced to emigrate to avoid starvation.

Secondly, apparently it is only "bigots" that are preventing Ireland re-joining the UK. 5 million people is a hell of a lot of bigots. And of course there no bigots preventing our country and people being re-united.

You couldn't make this patronising guff up.

Oh I don’t know, you seem quite good at it........

 

[Ruairi77]

I didn’t mean rejoining politically, just economically and technically if you ever left the EU. I agree with you that if Brexit works out, this would give the ROI both the confidence and the economic security to say goodbye to the EU. I also think that the U.K. as we have known it will change. We have had devolution and that will continue, slowly, but always with the certainty that the other nations will always bale out any one in trouble. I think we have an opportunity to revisit the relationships within our islands in the future as old grievances fade in the memory or are buried in a grave.......

The behavior of May and her cronies, their complete lack of respect for international agreements between the two countries, has done a lot of damage to the delicate relationship between the two countries.

 

[peteblue]

The behavior of May and her cronies, their complete lack of respect for international agreements between the two countries, has done a lot of damage to the delicate relationship between the two countries.

But you the mail on the head. An agreement between two countries. I’ve said many times in the past that the EU should butt out of this.......

 

[hullefc]

What the likes of Rees Mogg, Johnson and the DUP et al can't stand is that the Irish government is acting with authority and determination to protect their interests. Hence his childish outburst in the Belfast Newsletter, 'The leading Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg has launched a fierce attack on the tactics of Dublin and Brussels over the Irish border. Writing in today’s News Letter, Mr Rees-Mogg accuses the Irish government of “irresponsible, vote-chasing immaturity” in its joint approach with the EU".
The message is crystal clear once the Irish stand up for themselves and don't kowtow to the demands that suit the UK government they are castigated. 'Irresponsible' to not want a border on the island of Ireland. 'Irresponsible' to not want the Good Friday Agreement rode roughshod over. 'Irresponsible' to stand up for the 71% who voted for the Good Friday Agreement. 'Irresponsible' for protecting Irish citizens' rights as enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. 'Irresponsible' to hold May to her December promises. When she said that Northern Ireland would stay in the customs union and the single market. Along with, it would be up to the Stormont parliament to decide whether there was a border in the Irish Sea or not. The DUP don't have the maths to stop a border in the Irish Sea being voted for, hence their pulling back from wanting the assembly to convene. They think this buys them a bit of breathing space. But the chickens are coming home to roost.

For the likes of Rees Mogg it is fine for the UK to stand up for 'what is wants'. But the moment the Irish exert the same they are deemed 'irresponsible'. You just couldn't make up such barefaced stupidity and hypocrisy. Rees Mogg's et al vision of leaving the EU, has hit the hard light of day, and they will threaten the Irish with a hard border and renege of anything and everything to get their way.

 

[Khalekan]

Ill judged words Pete while trying to make your point.

I’ll pass on giving the history lesson.

Ill judged, ill informed and now downright insulting.

That type of remark is the level @peteblue would bring the debate on this thread down to if it weren’t for the fact he is so far out of his depth on the subject that his buffoonery only serves to paint him as a comical figure.

He is being schooled by practically every poster within the thread and hasn’t the wit to take on board any point which is at odds with his own prejudices but which would greatly enhance his understanding of the ongoing problems Ireland has had with John Bull for an awful long time.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

The highlighted bit was to emphasise the stupidity of trying to pit the U.K. versus the ROI. Like it or not, accept it or not, we are one people, intertwined through blood and history. I have said before that I believe that Ireland will rejoin and I actually hope that the ROI would rejoin with the U.K., of course these things will never happen while the bigots hold sway.....

Pete you have some some quite incredible things as part of this whole Brexit debate but this post absolutely takes the biscuit and confirms your absolute ignorance of all Irish affairs.

The Republic will never, and should never, "rejoin" the UK.

The great British army and its Empire building antics conquered a peaceful country butchering countless thousands in the process. The 'plantation' strategy was evil beyond words and led to all the more recent troubles. Potato famines and other major injustices followed.

When then the Irish people.voted democratically for self-governemnt via Westminster elections the British political establishment, with the Tory Unionists at their head, rejected that democratic vote and worsened their suppression of the natives. The partition and the civil rights abuses of the 20th century that followed will never be forgotten.

The English stated has treated Ireland terribly throughout history. Not even the most rabid unionists on the Shankill seek the "rejoining" of Ireland and the UK.

 

[hullefc]

The Tories need to take heed of Trump's trade war actions and Mitchell's warnings. If they try and undermine the Good Friday Agreement it will be nigh on impossible to get a trade deal with the US. May will be dogged with trustworthiness issues.

Good Friday agreement
Brexit warning from US senator who brokered Northern Ireland peace


George Mitchell says ‘serious trouble’ could lie ahead if border checks are reinstated

Lisa O'Carroll Brexit correspondent

@lisaocarroll
Sat 3 Mar 2018 16.23 GMTLast modified on Sat 3 Mar 2018 16.51 GMT



George Mitchell: ‘If you reinstate a hard border, you go back to the days when stereotyping resumes, demonisation resumes.’ Photograph: Chip Somodevilla/Getty
The former American senator who brokered peace in Northern Ireland has warned there could be “serious trouble ahead” if border checks were reinstated because of Brexit.

George Mitchell, who worked with Tony Blair and Bertie Ahern to strike the peace deal in 1998, said he did not think a return to violence was inevitable in the region. But he said “the risk is high enough” for politicians to take action before any “regressive” forces in society resurge. He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that the greater danger was the “change in attitude” between communities that had been in conflict or had lived with physical or social barriers in the past.

“When there was a hard border, there was very little commerce, there was very little interaction between the people of Northern Ireland and the people of the Republic, and that led to stereotyping, to the demonisation of others, to attitudes that were based upon acts from the distant past,” he said.

“The open border has meant people travelling back and forth, a degree of social interaction, of commerce, of people working together. If you reinstate a hard border, you go back to the delays when stereotyping resumes, demonisation resumes, and people turn inward as opposed to outward, and they lose the benefits that come from open borders.”

Asked if he believed there could be serious trouble ahead, he said: “Yes, there could be serious trouble ahead. No society is immune from the regressive forces that are part of every problem.”

Mitchell said peace was a fragile thing and that it would take years to make the changes in attitude between communities become a way of normal life.

He also raised concerns about the deadlock over resumption of power-sharing in the Northern Ireland. “What is most difficult to change in conflict societies is what is in the minds and hearts of people, that’s what’s hard, that’s what takes a long time to change, and that change is not completed in Northern Ireland,” he said.

The collapse of the devolved government 13 months ago, combined with uncertainty over the border, made the 20th anniversary of the Good Friday agreement, this year, “seem hollow”.

As chairman of the Northern Ireland peace talks, Mitchell worked to bring all sides together with the support of the premiers in Ireland and Britain, Bertie Ahern and Tony Blair".

 

[Neiler]

It's been quite an education reading the last 2 pages.

Firstly, apparently Britain has actually "helped Ireland whenever needed" according to one poster.

Shame about the 1 million people who starved to death during the famine because help from their own government was not forthcoming, despite the fact that we were supposedly all part of the same country then. And shame about the other 1 million people who were forced to emigrate to avoid starvation.

Secondly, apparently it is only "bigots" that are preventing Ireland re-joining the UK. 5 million people is a hell of a lot of bigots. And of course there no bigots preventing our country and people being re-united.

You couldn't make this patronising guff up.

It’s quite incredible and very worriying and sad. The mental picture it creates is of a drowning man trying to latch on to a life preserver.

I can’t help but worry for the uk and feel concern for that prevailing opinion there,the inevitable regression, irrelevancy and the lives involved.

The UK won’t introduce a hard border in my opinion, they can’t there are very real dangers and consequences involved on both islands politically and to general society. It means essentially brexit is going to be half arsed convoluted political vehicle with the UK significantly worse off for absolutely no meaningful gain ir change. Could be saw a mile off.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

 

[peteblue]

Ill judged, ill informed and now downright insulting.

That type of remark is the level @peteblue would bring the debate on this thread down to if it weren’t for the fact he is so far out of his depth on the subject that his buffoonery only serves to paint him as a comical figure.

He is being schooled by practically every poster within the thread and hasn’t the wit to take on board any point which is at odds with his own prejudices but which would greatly enhance his understanding of the ongoing problems Ireland has had with John Bull for an awful long time.

An argument or a discussion inevitably requires two differing viewpoints. It appears that you will not tolerate any view other than your own. One or two on here are at least willing to try to explain a viewpoint. Your comment just parrots the abuse issued by another poster as a substitute for reasoned argument......

 

[peteblue]

Pete you have some some quite incredible things as part of this whole Brexit debate but this post absolutely takes the biscuit and confirms your absolute ignorance of all Irish affairs.

The Republic will never, and should never, "rejoin" the UK.

The great British army and its Empire building antics conquered a peaceful country butchering countless thousands in the process. The 'plantation' strategy was evil beyond words and led to all the more recent troubles. Potato famines and other major injustices followed.

When then the Irish people.voted democratically for self-governemnt via Westminster elections the British political establishment, with the Tory Unionists at their head, rejected that democratic vote and worsened their suppression of the natives. The partition and the civil rights abuses of the 20th century that followed will never be forgotten.

The English stated has treated Ireland terribly throughout history. Not even the most rabid unionists on the Shankill seek the "rejoining" of Ireland and the UK.

I did say economically not politically in a follow on post. Let me put it another way, if, for whatever reason, the ROI decided at some point in the future to exit the EU or the EU disintegrated, the first place both the ROI and the U.K. would look is to each other for economic continuity. However judging by some of the comments on here about issues going back 170 years, since when the British have fought the Chinese, Indians, South Africans, South Americans, the Irish, Italy, France, Iran, Afghanistan and a couple of World wars with Germany, all of whom have got over it, it would appear that some Irish will never let it go.......

 

[Neiler]

I did say economically not politically in a follow on post. Let me put it another way, if, for whatever reason, the ROI decided at some point in the future to exit the EU or the EU disintegrated, the first place both the ROI and the U.K. would look is to each other for economic continuity. However judging by some of the comments on here about issues going back 170 years, since when the British have fought the Chinese, Indians, South Africans, South Americans, the Irish, Italy, France, Iran, Afghanistan and a couple of World wars with Germany, all of whom have got over it, it would appear that some Irish will never let it go.......

Maybe if Irish politicians were flip flopping about whether to stick up a border between areas or your home, that had previously led to years of violence and killing in your community you might find you would have a strong opinion of ill sentiment toward those institutions.

Certainly the UK doing their best to unravel years of progress in Anglo, Irish relations and the peace process.

What an utterly oblivious post.