Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Ruairi77]

However.....peace is not merely the absence of war.

your whole post is very well written but this is excellent!

 

[Ruairi77]

All of this messing will lead to loads of legal challenges with regards to the GFA and the Hillsboro agreement. This could be tied up in courts for years, even decades!

 

[Khalekan]

your whole post is very well written but this is excellent!

Go raibh maith agat, Ruari

 

[electricblue]

Brexit has much bigger ramifications for the people in NI than it has for the rest of us.

Nail on head.

 

[electricblue]

They are prepared to renege on the Good Friday Agreement because it stands in their way.

That is most definitely the case despite all the fudged language and contradictory claims we are hearing every day, not to mention the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 2 referendums north and south.

100 years ago we had partition imposed on us because they refused to accept the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 1918 general election. Now we are going to have Brexit imposed on us which is again contrary to the democratic will of the people.

They don't give 2 fs what happens here. British democracy = make it up as you go along to suit your own self-interests.

 

[roydo]

That is most definitely the case despite all the fudged language and contradictory claims we are hearing every day, not to mention the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 2 referendums north and south.

100 years ago we had partition imposed on us because they refused to accept the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 1918 general election. Now we are going to have Brexit imposed on us which is again contrary to the democratic will of the people.

They don't give 2 fs what happens here. British democracy = make it up as you go along to suit your own self-interests.

British democracy seems to be lie, lie, lie. Then claim a referendum result based on lies is in some way, democratic.

If the issue of the Irish border was debated/discussed in the campaign, it passed me by.

 

[hullefc]

British democracy seems to be lie, lie, lie. Then claim a referendum result based on lies is in some way, democratic.

If the issue of the Irish border was debated/discussed in the campaign, it passed me by.

It was discussed in Northern Ireland and that is why they voted to remain. But it wasn't discussed on the mainland. It was only Blair and Major who got a mention and that was pooh, pointed by the likes of Hoey. As far as Farage, Johnson, Gove, Rees Mogg and Duncan Smith was concerned they ignored the warnings by Blair and Major. When all is said and done the English media and politicians haven't a clue about the whole Good Friday Agreement package that includes the Northern Ireland Act 1989 and the changes to the Irish constitution. In fact most people outside of Northern Ireland haven't any inkling about Northern Ireland. That is not meant as a criticism of people's understanding of Northern Ireland but it never registers with them. Because they are told very little about the country by the media.

 

[hullefc]

That is most definitely the case despite all the fudged language and contradictory claims we are hearing every day, not to mention the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 2 referendums north and south.

100 years ago we had partition imposed on us because they refused to accept the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 1918 general election. Now we are going to have Brexit imposed on us which is again contrary to the democratic will of the people.

They don't give 2 fs what happens here. British democracy = make it up as you go along to suit your own self-interests.

Well said. 71% voted for the GFA and the likes of Johnson and Rees Mogg want to ride roughshod and ignore the democratic will of the Northern Irish people.

 

[peteblue]

“If we are out of the European Union with tariffs on exporting goods into the EU, there’d have to be something to recognise that, between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

“And if you pulled out of the EU and came out of free movement, then how could you have a situation where there was an open border with a country that was in the EU and has access to free movement.”

Theresa May said that in 2016, the UK can't have an open border between a country in the EU and one that is out in order to check the free movement of people. That is border guards checking passports i.e a hard border.

Sorry mate, but this is more about creating problems than solving them.......

 

[peteblue]

There is no chance of trouble on the scale we witnessed in the recent past, that’s for sure.

Those Troubles took root and grew out a much more important issue than which flag flies over Belfast City Hall.....it was about the fundamental civil rights and equality of citizenship which had been denied the ethnic Irish, mostly Catholic, minority in the North since the foundation of the state.

Those issues are largely rectified nowadays, despite the best efforts of the DUP to turn back the clock.

However.....peace is not merely the absence of war.

It is all about removing the casus belli.....and that is what the Good Friday Agreement did.

It established the Principle of Consent which safeguarded the position of the Unionists within the UK whilst leaving the way clear for a future Nationalist majority seeing their country re-united .......and membership of the EU by both the UK and the Irish Republic erased the physical manifestation of partition so despised by the Nationalists. i.e. gun toting British soldiers and customs checks along the Border.

Anyone underestimating the importance of Irish people in, say South Armagh, being able to freely move between Crossmaglen and Castleblayney without hindrance by British officialdom does so without regard to how passionate people in those border communities right along the length of it and on both sides of it resent and detest it.

And the history of Ireland since the border was imposed on those to whom it is quite alien almost a century ago shows it is not an issue which just fades away quietly.

This is why Brexit has much bigger ramifications for the people in NI than it has for the rest of us.

And it is why the question of the Irish border must be uppermost in the minds of the UK negotiators.

It is not good enough for Brexiteers to snarl at Mr. Barnier and dismiss his proposals out of hand.

May and her team need to come up with a better plan than he has.

His notion of a border along the sea suits no one either.

As @Harryflashman says, that idea is anathema to the nationalists in Belfast as much as it is to the unionists.

Though I suspect Barnier knows this and has included it as an attitude adjuster for May.

She needs to step up.

Barnier is just trying to cause trouble. May should have come out and said we will not negotiate with him.......

 

[Khalekan]

Barnier is just trying to cause trouble. May should have come out and said we will not negotiate with him.......

Yes, great suggestion Pete.

Totally in keeping with the rest of your ill informed comments on this thread

 

[Khalekan]

That is most definitely the case despite all the fudged language and contradictory claims we are hearing every day, not to mention the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 2 referendums north and south.

100 years ago we had partition imposed on us because they refused to accept the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 1918 general election. Now we are going to have Brexit imposed on us which is again contrary to the democratic will of the people.

They don't give 2 fs what happens here. British democracy = make it up as you go along to suit your own self-interests.

And even @peteblue could not argue with that

Although no doubt he will try to

 

[peteblue]

Yes, great suggestion Pete.

Totally in keeping with the rest of your ill informed comments on this thread

Not really. If a negotiator is deliberately being obstructive a challenge is acceptable, and indeed many people believe he is deliberately ruining the negotiations The purpose of negotiation is for both sides to achieve a positive outcome. Thanks for your ill informed post .......

 

[peteblue]

That is most definitely the case despite all the fudged language and contradictory claims we are hearing every day, not to mention the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 2 referendums north and south.

100 years ago we had partition imposed on us because they refused to accept the democratic will of the people as expressed in the 1918 general election. Now we are going to have Brexit imposed on us which is again contrary to the democratic will of the people.

They don't give 2 fs what happens here. British democracy = make it up as you go along to suit your own self-interests.

Without Britain, the ROI would have been bankrupt many years ago. We should have not messed about and should have just sent the troops in and shot the lot of you, there, does that describe the way we hate you and try to do you down at every opportunity. Or maybe, just maybe, Britain has actually helped the ROI when needed, while never reciprocated......

 

[peteblue]

Being of Irish decent, and having family members intimately involved in the original struggle and the gaining of independence, I find it difficult to understand exactly what many in the ROI are moaning about. The ROI only joined the EU because the U.K. did, the U.K. had provided the ROI with access to the U.K. markets and travel many decades before the EEC and then the EU even existed. Yet still they have this anti British hatred and love of all things European. This is not a problem, pick your friends and pick your enemies, but when we split from the EU at least stop trying to have it always.....