It’s not clever, it’s also not true.
Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit
- Thread starter Charlie Sweet
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Well it’s bit more complicated then that, you will be familiar with the issues that led to Martin McGuinness resigning publicly, privately we know there were other issues going on for him in regard to heath. But let’s stick to politics here. The key issues at play here were Sinn Feinn wanting to allow same sex marriage, recognize the Irish language and hold to account the protagonists of the ash to cash scheme, that cost the exchequer 100s of millions.
When McGuinness resigned as first minister it was precipitated more than a year of political deadlock and failed attempts to resolve differences over issues such as an Irish language act, same sex marriage, dealing with the past and ensuring any future return to a Northern Executive and Assembly was secure and sustainable.
The collapse had been coming for several months before McGuinness made his dramatic move.
And with the Irish language so central to the current effort to end the impasse it began with rows over the language. In September the then DUP Minister of Agriculture Michelle McIlveen changed the name of the fishery protection vessel from Banríon Uladh to Queen of Ulster.
That was viewed as unnecessary and petty but matters escalated at Christmas 2016 when the DUP communities minister Paul Givan announced the scrapping of a £55,000 grant to the Líofa Gaeltacht bursary scheme.
The bursaries were used to allow people from disadvantaged areas attend Gaeltacht course in Donegal.
Around the same time in December 2016 details were surfacing of the scandal of the botched Renewable Heat Incentive Scheme, that resulted in the squandering of hundreds of millions of pounds.
The scheme was set up in November 2012 and run by the North’s Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment when the then First Minister Arlene Foster was its minister. Nationalists argued the buck stopped with her.
McGuinness privately and publicly urged Ms Foster to temporarily stand aside as First Minister pending an inquiry into the scheme, but she wasn’t for moving.
Within the republican base there was a wider concern that the DUP was “running rings” around Sinn Féin and that conciliatory gestures made by McGuinness were not being reciprocated by the DUP. The regular complaint was that the DUP was “showing disrespect” to Sinn Féin and nationalism in general.
The political atmosphere was poisoned even more in February that year when Ms Foster declared, in relation to Sinn Féin’s demand for an Irish language act, that “if you feed a crocodile it will keep coming back and looking for more”.
This triggered an emotional and angry response from nationalism. It galvanised the nationalist and republican vote to such an extent that Sinn Féin was just one seat shy of the DUP after the votes were counted.
Fortunately in the intervening months the DUP struck gold in the British general election, they held the balance of power in Westminster. This gave them the opportunity to log jam any attempt to reconcile the executive and hold sway from Westminster and wield influence over the British Goverment. That is essentially winning the lottery for unionists. It doesn’t get any better.
Now I can hear you say, that’s democracy. But let’s look at the British Governments role in this. Sinn Fein are one of the biggest parties in the ROI Dail, there are two parties bigger. The ROI run a modern PR system. So essentially it’s almost always a coalition goverment. The two biggest parties in the ROI of Ireland could form a coalitition with Sinn Feinn and have a huge majority government. Neither party will do this for a number of reasons, but essentially it sets the political die of favinging Nationilism over Unionionism. One might presume, that it would be natural to veer toward nationalism, however unionists are Irish men as well and no one in the ROI would favor one group over the other.
Now considering all of the above, what has the British Goverment done, well they have got into bed with the DUP, supports a party against equal rights as I have pointed out, were at the root of a financial scandal, and colluded with them to create a scenario that log jamming best served unionism and keeping the executive shut for two years as they needed their votes and in fact sired one community in Northern Ireland over the other.
You will see it’s a little more refined then you describe as throwing toys out of a pram and like most things culpability perhaps should be shared out. I’ll leave the context here to allow people draw their own opinions.
Emlynsqueakyvoice
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Good God. Are you for real? McGuinness threw his toys out of the pram? Do you really not know why he pulled out? Are you that thick? Martin was upset about Arlene's corrupt behaviour over RHI. What's your view about that Pete?
Ara here!
DUP refuse to enact a Language Act similar to that which exists in Wales, Scotland and the ROI giving status to the Irish language. Basically making the wee six the only part of these isles that doesn't recognise the native tongue.
DUP refuse to engage on abortion and marriage equality legislation.
Its funny, the DUP want NI treated the same for Brexit but not for other issues which don't suit their agenda.
They are hypocrites and many of them bigots of the highest order.
Not to mention the RHI scandal - cash for ash that Foster was personally responsible for.
Not sure what your issue is but classy as always resorting to calling me names.
Do yourself a favour and drink some of your own bars beer and leave it out with the he's stupid comments.
Given that many of the replies I made to that guy were liked by the majority of regulars on this thread you are implying they are stupid too.
Funny how you always want to be seen as smart and clever but you resort to name calling and snide remarks.
Then you have Paisley junior.....up to his oxters in sleaze but as his name is far bigger than the party itself, they cannot sack him lol
Carl O'Ancelotti
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All correct of course. But don't let actual facts get in the way of a good old myopic rant from the DUP's No 1 fan.
RichardP
Player Valuation: £5m
So, Martin was 'upset and resigned.' Your words.
How is that not throwing his toys out of his pram?
Would he not, from a political perspective, have been better served by trying to 'fix things' from the inside? That surely would have been the mature and professional way to act.
lollollol
Emlynsqueakyvoice
Player Valuation: £6m
Yes mate, Martin walked out on his own because he was upset, leaving all of his Sinn Fein pals to carry on in government.
If you are not aware of what happened, with the corrupt DUP reneging on pledges and commitments made with regard to the Irish language etc, then you really have no place coming on to this thread and demonstrating your ignorance. The regulars on this thread have taken you apart regarding your statements about the Irish border question and you are now reduced to making frankly pathetic observations regarding Martin. I can assure you that I was trying to keep things as simple as I could for the benefit of people like you.
If you are not aware of what happened, with the corrupt DUP reneging on pledges and commitments made with regard to the Irish language etc, then you really have no place coming on to this thread and demonstrating your ignorance. The regulars on this thread have taken you apart regarding your statements about the Irish border question and you are now reduced to making frankly pathetic observations regarding Martin. I can assure you that I was trying to keep things as simple as I could for the benefit of people like you.
Give him time he will call you an idiot or stupid or make some smart comment. Maybe he will talk down to you as that seems to be his favourite thing to do. The couple of others will jump on and defend him also.
Off late the tactic of the anti populist in a thread, especially those losing their argument is to resort to calling people stupid and pretending that they are so much smarter than everyone else.
They will then cry foul on how we don't understand them and hate them because they have the opposite view.
Rinse and repeat.
Emlynsqueakyvoice
Player Valuation: £6m
Yes, I've noticed. The Irish/remain lads on this thread have really explained their corner well, while most on the other side of the argument have used platitudes and trivialisation to bolster their points of view. It's been a harsh lesson for them.
RichardP
Player Valuation: £5m
It seems a fair question. MM was upset and resigned, how is that anything other than throwing toys out of his pram? If he really wanted to fix things he would surely have had a better chance of doing that from the inside, notwithstanding any feelings of foul play by the other side.
If I can also ask a constructive follow up question please. How did his resignation help either MM or his cause?
I think in politics there comes a time when a decision has to be made about colluding with a questionable regime, we also know that there were personal circumstances that may have influenced his decision. To answer your question though, Sinn Feinn were returned in the subsequent elections prompted by his resignation with a record and massive mandate, one seat short of the biggest unionist party. Another factor influencing the log jam.
Its very simplistic logic mate really that can be applied to any circumstance, for example Brexit and Boris Johnson, Rabb's and Davies's resignations. Surely they had a better change of influencing UK negotiating with the EU and its future welfare from inside government. By your logic mate they threw their toys out of their prams and abandoned their cause.
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