Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[sheedy3]

Thatcher once famously declared that “Northern Ireland is as British as Finchley”.....before signing the Anglo-Irish Agreement which paved the way for the GFA which in turn lead to today’s deal.

All of which serves to demonstrate that both Thatcher and the Moggster were well off the mark and that South Armagh ain’t Somerset and the Falls Road ain’t Finchley.

Crime is crime is crime is crime...

 

[orly]

Well, sense in the sense that we'll pay £40bn to leave something in name only, only to have the same regulations/access but no say in how they're applied. It's a funny kind of sense like, but given the circumstances it's probably the best we could hope for.

Sure - the rest is totally daft. In fact it is now so watered down (intentionally) that is utterly pointless.

But we had to have everyone pull back from the brink of a hard border. It's not quite Cuban missile crisis levels of "being on the limit of the abyss" but was such a potentially awful scenario.

I cheered when I woke up to the news, NEA

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Sure - the rest is totally daft. In fact it is now so watered down (intentionally) that is utterly pointless.

But we had to have everyone pull back from the brink of a hard border. It's not quite Cuban missile crisis levels of "being on the limit of the abyss" but was such a potentially awful scenario.

I cheered when I woke up to the news, NEA

It has made me very happy I must admit.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Thatcher once famously declared that “Northern Ireland is as British as Finchley”.....before signing the Anglo-Irish Agreement which paved the way for the GFA which in turn lead to today’s deal.

All of which serves to demonstrate that both Thatcher and the Moggster were well off the mark and that South Armagh ain’t Somerset and the Falls Road ain’t Finchley.

A year earlier, Thatcher was admitting in private that she'd not stand in the way of Irish unification and sounded out the Irish government on it. She told Charlie Haughey that the UK got partition wrong - that Ireland should've been kept whole.

 

[Joey66]

It has made me very happy I must admit.

Yes Bruce untill phase two talks start !

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes Bruce untill phase two talks start !

The condition has been made that no border shall exist between Ireland and Northern Ireland, and therefore between Ireland and the UK (or the EU and the UK). Whether through whatever trade deal is agreed upon or the fall back position in the event of no trade deal being agreed upon, that is what will be. How will phase two change that? It's basically negotiating for what kind of soft brexit it will be.

 

[peteblue]

I believe Norway pay into the EU you know.

We are not joining the EFTA, so what does Norway paying in have to do with us. Also, as has been stated many times, the EU sells far more to us than we do to them........

 

[Joey66]

We are not joining the EFTA, so what does Norway paying in have to do with us. Also, as has been stated many times, the EU sells far more to us than we do to them........

Brice will be in tears if Google breaks down lol

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Brice will be in tears if Google breaks down lol

I can always turn to you for my wisdom Joe

 

[Armaghtoffee]

One thing I find quite alarming in these Westminster debates is the total lack of an Irish nationalist voice putting forward the fears of going on for half the electorate in the North regarding Brexit and its effect on them.

You would get the impression the DUP were the only party with MPs in NI and that they speak for all the people in the province.

This of course is down entirely to Sinn Fein’s abstenionist policy IMO.

It used to be funny when Gerry Adams was the only SF MP and Thatcher then Blair had 100+ majorities.

It never mattered back then.

But in these days of hung parliaments and wafer thin majorities it is a downright disgrace, given they have what, seven or eight votes in the House.

I mean, the whole dynamic of Westminster politics and Brexit clause voting over the next year could be changed at the stroke of a pen if SF wised up and abandoned a policy which has its genesis in another century and in a totally different Ireland and indeed Europe.

They should just hold their nose, cross their fingers and take the darned oath of allegiance and get in there and help Mr. Varadkar, whom is doing a splendid job standing up to the DUP/Brexit border bullies.

There are plenty of republican English, Scottish and Welsh MPs who do just that.

It is blooming meaningless anyway and should be ditched across the board.....but that is a different debate for a different day.

I have a feeling SF are going to change this policy......particularly with Gerry standing down as leader shortly.

Already they have signalled a shift in policy toward abortion and his likely successor, Mary Lou MacDonald, has came out and declared herself pro-choice and they are going to take a vote on changing their policy, moving away from a strict no abortion dogma.

Hopefully the abstenionist policy will also change.

Seeing as Sinn Fein sit in Leinster House already, sitting in Westminister isn’t really that far of an extension. Neither of these parliaments are legitimate governments at least according to the Green Book anyway.

Corbyn as PM might facilitate the way for the Shinners to enter Westminster if the timing and political capital is right. If that time was to capitalise on Brexit fuelled Nationalism then it could happen. By the time the UK leaves the EU, Sinn Fein will very likely be the largest party in the North and also in government in the South of Ireland. To accept a minority role in a Corbyn government and have a Republican voice in London, Belfast and Dublin may prove irresistible.

In my humble opinion, Brexit will ultimately end the United Kingdom as we know it.

 

[peteblue]

Seeing as Sinn Fein sit in Leinster House already, sitting in Westminister isn’t really that far of an extension. Neither of these parliaments are legitimate governments at least according to the Green Book anyway.

Corbyn as PM might facilitate the way for the Shinners to enter Westminster if the timing and political capital is right. If that time was to capitalise on Brexit fuelled Nationalism then it could happen. By the time the UK leaves the EU, Sinn Fein will very likely be the largest party in the North and also in government in the South of Ireland. To accept a minority role in a Corbyn government and have a Republican voice in London, Belfast and Dublin may prove irresistible.

In my humble opinion, Brexit will ultimately end the United Kingdom as we know it.

The Belfast agreement virtually guaranteed the unification of Ireland, it’s just a matter of when.....the trick though is to get an absolute overwhelming majority to vote for unification, for if it’s merely a majority then the new minority may start to behave like a previous minority did, with disastrous results for its people........

 

[Joey66]

I can always turn to you for my wisdom Joe

Not seen much of it so far Bruce every answer has a google linklol

 

[Armaghtoffee]

The Belfast agreement virtually guaranteed the unification of Ireland, it’s just a matter of when.....the trick though is to get an absolute overwhelming majority to vote for unification, for if it’s merely a majority then the new minority may start to behave like a previous minority did, with disastrous results for its people........

I think the GFA stopped violence but I don’t think it guaranteed unification. The removal of Articles 2 and 3 of the Irish constitution and Republican acceptance of the principle of consent arguably made unification less likely. On the flip side, forcing Unionism to accept that they must share power was progression.

I do believe unification will happen but not through the vehicle of the GFA.

Brexit has inadvertently been a serious boost to Nationalism for both Ireland and Scotland.

 

[Neiler]

I think the GFA stopped violence but I don’t think it guaranteed unification. The removal of Articles 2 and 3 of the Irish constitution and Republican acceptance of the principle of consent arguably made unification less likely. On the flip side, forcing Unionism to accept that they must share power was progression.

I do believe unification will happen but not through the vehicle of the GFA.

Brexit has inadvertently been a serious boost to Nationalism for both Ireland and Scotland.

Agree with the above the GFA doesn’t gaurenteed reunification at all, that said events this week will likely lead to it. Essentially NI are more aligned to Ireland now then the UK. Eventually there will be more Irish Citzens in NI then British, will be a natural evolution I think. The English will abandon it I think once the nationalist majority becomes a political reality the havoc that cause politically is something they will keenly wish to avoid. When you consider the lives lost and violence over the years on both sides for progress like this to be made and likely naturally occur, it’s hopefully a brave new world.

The Irish Consitution can be changed at any time really to accomadate reunification. I think the issue will be an economic one, NI is a money pit, the UK are pouring money into the province, whether the Irish government could do the same is debatable.

At the moment NI is essentially aligned to the Republic, with the UK footing the bill it’s a fantastic deal/swindle.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Agree with the above the GFA doesn’t gaurenteed reunification at all, that said events this week will likely lead to it. Essentially NI are more aligned to Ireland now then the UK. Eventually there will be more Irish Citzens in NI then British, will be a natural evolution I think. The English will abandon it I think once the nationalist majority becomes a political reality the havoc that cause politically is something they will keenly wish to avoid. When you consider the lives lost and violence over the years on both sides for progress like this to be made and likely naturally occur, it’s hopefully a brave new world.

The Irish Consitution can be changed at any time really to accomadate reunification. I think the issue will be an economic one, NI is a money pit, the UK are pouring money into the province, whether the Irish government could do the same is debatable.

At the moment NI is essentially aligned to the Republic, with the UK footing the bill it’s a fantastic deal/swindle.

The on paper Nationalist majority is already alive and attending school in the North. I have long said that the leaders of Unionism are negligent in their duty as they should be articulating what is happening now and preparing the way. The have chosen to perpetuate the siege mentality though.

Surely it’s clear though that the mothership (London) has willingly cast them aside in the Brexit negotiations?

Belfast is far removed from Somerset after all it seems.