Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Neiler]

The on paper Nationalist majority is already alive and attending school in the North. I have long said that the leaders of Unionism are negligent in their duty as they should be articulating what is happening now and preparing the way. The have chosen to perpetuate the siege mentality though.

Surely it’s clear though that the mothership (London) has willingly cast them aside in the Brexit negotiations?

Belfast is far removed from Somerset after all it seems.

The vote on Brexit was telling, every county except for Antrim voted to remain in Europe. Agree on the Unionism leadership, like never before we have citzens both uninionists and nationalists living, working and socializing together. Politically we have a party that sabotages self government, ignores the mandate of the people of Nothern Ireland who overwhelmingly didn’t want Brexit and even within Uninionism their objection to issues like same sex manrriage are divisive in their own community. People won’t tolerate the above, or being repressed even within their own community, they are writing the end of their own existence in my opinion.

Britain has been remarkably patient with the Unionist community in my opinion, I know they hold the balance of power in Westminster presently, but that won’t always be the case.

If the British public widely knew economically what the north costs for what it yields the English people may prompt the reunification. Simply put if Northern Ireland was not part of the UK coffers the Brexit bill would be paid in under four years.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

The vote on Brexit was telling, every county except for Antrim voted to remain in Europe. Agree on the Unionism leadership, like never before we have citzens both uninionists and nationalists living, working and socializing together. Politically we have a party that sabotages self government, ignores the mandate of the people of Nothern Ireland who overwhelmingly didn’t want Brexit and even within Uninionism their objection to issues like same sex manrriage are divisive in their own community. People won’t tolerate the above, or being repressed even within their own community, they are writing the end of their own existence in my opinion.

Britain has been remarkably patient with the Unionist community in my opinion, I know they hold the balance of power in Westminster presently, but that won’t always be the case.

If the British public widely knew economically what the north costs for what it yields the English people may prompt the reunification. Simply put if Northern Ireland was not part of the UK coffers the Brexit bill would be paid in under four years.

Very good post.

I think your last paragraph nailed it. The wider British public really doesnt grasp the complexities of Northern Ireland.

 

[Number_25]

That Adam Boulton guy on Sky News needs his head wobbled.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

That Adam Boulton guy on Sky News needs his head wobbled.

why what's he done?!

 

[Neiler]

why what's he done?!

Pretty much nothing, he called some loons giving him abuse on twitter “you Irish” and some people got a bit precious about it.

Don’t see a problem to be honest, sure they are Irish.

 

[Khalekan]

That Adam Boulton guy on Sky News needs his head wobbled.

It was funny the day Ally Campbell caused Boulton's head to fall off in the wake the 2011 GE.

 

[NeroCeasar]

I have read every post in this thread but haven't posted yet. The one thing I can't see is the reunification of Ireland, why? Because those of us in the South know what it will cost both in monetary terms and political terms ( risk of violence, policing bill etc etc). I don't believe there is any real appetite in the south to drag that problem onto us which is why I believe the most likely long term outcome is an independent state of NI. Economically linked to London and Dublin naturally, but fully independent to sink or swim on its own merits.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

I have read every post in this thread but haven't posted yet. The one thing I can't see is the reunification of Ireland, why? Because those of us in the South know what it will cost both in monetary terms and political terms ( risk of violence, policing bill etc etc). I don't believe there is any real appetite in the south to drag that problem onto us which is why I believe the most likely long term outcome is an independent state of NI. Economically linked to London and Dublin naturally, but fully independent to sink or swim on its own merits.

I don’t understand why a Northern Nationalist would want an independent state? What would be the point even?

Besides, wouldn’t this mean there would still be a border?

And the Independent State of Northern Ireland would be economically linked to London? So we would be as kinda as we are now?

Your post has perplexed me mo chairde.

 

[Ruairi77]

I don’t understand why a Northern Nationalist would want an independent state? What would be the point even?

Besides, wouldn’t this mean there would still be a border?

And the Independent State of Northern Ireland would be economically linked to London? So we would be as kinda as we are now?

Your post has perplexed me mo chairde.

I would only see it as an option if the state was a full member of the EU and Eurozone. As a country, it would be the only anglicized commonwealth member of the Eurozone, with it's citizens being able to choose UK or EU citizenship. This would put it at a huge economic advantage over other countries and could provide the foundations for a successful state and EU member.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

I would only see it as an option if the state was a full member of the EU and Eurozone. As a country, it would be the only anglicized commonwealth member of the Eurozone, with it's citizens being able to choose UK or EU citizenship. This would put it at a huge economic advantage over other countries and could provide the foundations for a successful state and EU member.

Wasn’t it the UDA, McMichael, who first proposed this idea of an independent state? I suppose mindful of potential changing demographics and the constant treachery from London.

The 80s Republican thesis, Eire Nua, was a proposed model of this in that Ulster would be a province of its own, with a government but one that was secondary to Dublin.

An idea that has been tentatively explored over the years but I really couldn’t see the will for it now, particularly not from the Nationalist/Republican perspective.

And it would still involve a border down the road lol

 

[Ruairi77]

Wasn’t it the UDA, McMichael, who first proposed this idea of an independent state? I suppose mindful of potential changing demographics and the constant treachery from London.

The 80s Republican thesis, Eire Nua, was a proposed model of this in that Ulster would be a province of its own, with a government but one that was secondary to Dublin.

An idea that has been tentatively explored over the years but I really couldn’t see the will for it now, particularly not from the Nationalist/Republican perspective.

And it would still involve a border down the road lol

Yea, but with full Euro zone membership the border between Armagh and Louth would pretty much be the same as the border between Armagh and Down. Only different in name.
And @NeroCeasar has a point, although I wouldn't mind seeing it, there isn't a huge appetite for a united Ireland in the south. I would imagine another referendum would be called in the south and the result of that would be far from a foregone conclusion.
A nation state could also reduce the potential for violent outbreaks and maybe be a good stepping stone to a united Ireland in the future.

 

[thirdmantackle]

the Republic of Ireland is economically a much better/stronger country than the Northern Ireland region and many areas of the UK in fact

the north is a social basket case

 

[SteveSC]

Yea, but with full Euro zone membership the border between Armagh and Louth would pretty much be the same as the border between Armagh and Down. Only different in name.
And @NeroCeasar has a point, although I wouldn't mind seeing it, there isn't a huge appetite for a united Ireland in the south. I would imagine another referendum would be called in the south and the result of that would be far from a foregone conclusion.
A nation state could also reduce the potential for violent outbreaks and maybe be a good stepping stone to a united Ireland in the future.

I think that's what a lot of Republicans and Sinn Fein folk forget.

The complex social and economic issues it would potentially bring is probably what would have doubts down south.
The cost of transferring British controlled systems like schools and roads to the Republic alone would be high. State run stuff even joining the police forces and state run services.
Not only changing the education system as whole would be a nightmare.

Its something most of us Irish people would love but in reality its not as easy to accomplish and that would make people not want it to happen

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Yea, but with full Euro zone membership the border between Armagh and Louth would pretty much be the same as the border between Armagh and Down. Only different in name.
And @NeroCeasar has a point, although I wouldn't mind seeing it, there isn't a huge appetite for a united Ireland in the south. I would imagine another referendum would be called in the south and the result of that would be far from a foregone conclusion.
A nation state could also reduce the potential for violent outbreaks and maybe be a good stepping stone to a united Ireland in the future.

By the time the (theoretical) Nationalist majority is voting age, the zeitgeist will be all over the new and exciting thing that is unification. Similar to the Brexit backlash that we see now.

Re the violent outbreaks, all I have known my entire life is Unionist politicians telling me that the will of the majority and the rule of law must be respected. We should be on safe ground there Ruairi

 

[Ruairi77]

Re the violent outbreaks, all I have known my entire life is Unionist politicians telling me that the will of the majority and the rule of law must be respected. We should be on safe ground there Ruairi

haha yea