Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[Armaghtoffee]

The nutjobs on both sides.

Nutjob loyalists will see him acting treacherously.

Nutjob republicans will seem him as leading the way to an imminent united Ireland.

Neither is the case but his language isn't sensible.

Unionism hasn’t dealt with as an overt a Nationalist as Varadkar in many years. Add this into the fear of an economic united Ireland, as proposed by May, and most things he says will be construed as an attack on the border.

In stating his position, is he really doing any differently from the various DUP members over the last few days? Much of their language has been grating to Nationalists.

All about managing expectations I suppose.

 

[SteveSC]

Telling the DUP that the negotiations are nothing to do with them is of course true but it doesn't help. Unionists had been getting on a bit better with Dublin and he needs to understand not all unionist voters are like the DUP.

Without seeing exactly what he said and based on the fact you say what he said is accurate i don't see the issue here.

So you think all Unionists will get upset because he is telling the DUP to but out?

But if some unionists are not like the DUP wouldn't they at least use their common sense to see its not a nationalist v unionist thing but more of a who's in control thing as in its communication directly between the Irish Government and his counter parts in the UK?

Seems like if that were the case its an excuse for the Unionists if anything to bandy together and accuse the republicans of not being honest and trying to start something not the other way around.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Ireland should have no more a voice in this than Northern Ireland. They share a geographical piece of land, one country no more equal than the other. Brussels has given Dublin a veto or EU controlling voice in this regard, we should allow Belfast the same..........

Pete just checking you do know that the DUP are not Northern Ireland? By a gnat's whisker they are the largest single party ahead of Sinn Fein and in the last NI elections the Unionist parties scored less than 50% for the first time in history?

Arlene Foster is taking stage only because her party did a grubby little deal with the Tories that everyone decried at the time for being inconsistent with the articles of the Good Friday Agreement.

 

[dublinbluenose]

Apparently the DUP wanted a seat at the Brexit negotiations with the EU.

 

[bobafro]

Apparently the DUP wanted a seat at the Brexit negotiations with the EU.

I reckon you'd have more reasonable negotiations with Lord Buckethead and the Monster Raving Loony Party.

With all the cribbing about retaining regulatory lockstep with the rest of the UK the DUP have absolutely zero issue completely diverging from the rest of the UK when it suits them - abortion law for example.

Amazing that the DUP have actually said that the Irish Government prevented the text of the agreement going to them - I'd love to know by what mechanism Dublin are able to interfere in domestic UK politics and if it happened surely heads should roll inside the Tory party. Regardless, the Tories would've been very aware of how opposed the DUP would be to a perceived distancing of themselves and the rest of the UK - when this news was leaked on Monday it very much seemed that May was calling the DUP's bluff with regard to SC agreement... which was ill-thought out. The DUP would rather face an election and potentially Corbyn as PM than appear to be supporting a move to weaken the union (this would have them completely eviscerated by their base in the next election )

Personally am not a fan of Leo Varadker, his politics or his ideology but it's farcical to be blaming Ireland for this mess. Brexit is something that Ireland had no say in but is going to drastically effect both the economy and the lives of many Irish people - which is the reason the EU has given Ireland the veto. It's in everybody's interest on both sides of the border in Ireland to protect the Good Friday Agreement but sadly this was the definition of an afterthought when it comes to Brexit... honestly can't remember it even being mentioned up until the vote passed which is madness. Does the UK not have an independent body that are supposed to furnish the population with unbiased information prior to a referendum?

Anyway, It's an omnishambles of epic proportions and judging by Davis' and Hammond's comments today it seems to me like they are just waiting for the EU to get fed up and walk away - then they can just walk away and blame everyone else.

 

[abelard]

I reckon you'd have more reasonable negotiations with Lord Buckethead and the Monster Raving Loony Party.

which enjoyed about the same percentage as the DUP of the overall UK vote

 

[bobafro]

which enjoyed about the same percentage as the DUP of the overall UK vote

This would be much easier to stomach if Lord Buckethead was propping up a Tory government as opposed to a party as bigoted as the BNP

 

[Ballymoney1]

The DUP seem to be enjoying their spell in the limelight well they should make the most of it because history will show this as a bad time for unionism.
Brexit was supported by themselves and their more extreme version the TUV. I suppose they reckon it is another way of showing how British they are and moving Northern Ireland further away from the Irish Republic. The problem is they don't see the bigger picture. A hard Brexit as supported by the DUP needs a border to be implemented properly. Now before brexit this was never much of an issue in Northern Ireland, it was virtually non existent and trade and commuters crossed on a daily basis with no hassles. This was good for unionism because a large proportion of the growing number of potential nationalist voters in Northern Ireland accepted this and were happy with the status quo.
Not any more the reintroduction of border check points caused by Brexit along with all the new disruption in trade between the two will cause many to re think their position. Previously apathetic nationalists may suddenly want a border poll and with demographic changes this will be the beginning of the end for Unionism in Northern Ireland. The DUP should be careful what they wish for. I say this as a unionist voter myself.

 

[hullefc]

The DUP seem to be enjoying their spell in the limelight well they should make the most of it because history will show this as a bad time for unionism.
Brexit was supported by themselves and their more extreme version the TUV. I suppose they reckon it is another way of showing how British they are and moving Northern Ireland further away from the Irish Republic. The problem is they don't see the bigger picture. A hard Brexit as supported by the DUP needs a border to be implemented properly. Now before brexit this was never much of an issue in Northern Ireland, it was virtually non existent and trade and commuters crossed on a daily basis with no hassles. This was good for unionism because a large proportion of the growing number of potential nationalist voters in Northern Ireland accepted this and were happy with the status quo.
Not any more the reintroduction of border check points caused by Brexit along with all the new disruption in trade between the two will cause many to re think their position. Previously apathetic nationalists may suddenly want a border poll and with demographic changes this will be the beginning of the end for Unionism in Northern Ireland. The DUP should be careful what they wish for. I say this as a unionist voter myself.

Good post. If/when there is a hard border those unionist farmers and business people may well change and become apathetic towards staying in the UK. It is high stakes time for unionism of the DUP variety as they were always opposed to the Good Friday Agreement and in particular the chance of a border poll. It is high stakes.

 

[davek]

Looks like there's a big push on to get this ironed out tonight. I can see May and the other clowns hot footing it to Brussels tomorrow to get this phase one done before the weekend.

 

[Khalekan]

Unionism hasn’t dealt with as an overt a Nationalist as Varadkar in many years. Add this into the fear of an economic united Ireland, as proposed by May, and most things he says will be construed as an attack on the border.

In stating his position, is he really doing any differently from the various DUP members over the last few days? Much of their language has been grating to Nationalists.

All about managing expectations I suppose.

One thing I find quite alarming in these Westminster debates is the total lack of an Irish nationalist voice putting forward the fears of going on for half the electorate in the North regarding Brexit and its effect on them.

You would get the impression the DUP were the only party with MPs in NI and that they speak for all the people in the province.

This of course is down entirely to Sinn Fein’s abstenionist policy IMO.

It used to be funny when Gerry Adams was the only SF MP and Thatcher then Blair had 100+ majorities.

It never mattered back then.

But in these days of hung parliaments and wafer thin majorities it is a downright disgrace, given they have what, seven or eight votes in the House.

I mean, the whole dynamic of Westminster politics and Brexit clause voting over the next year could be changed at the stroke of a pen if SF wised up and abandoned a policy which has its genesis in another century and in a totally different Ireland and indeed Europe.

They should just hold their nose, cross their fingers and take the darned oath of allegiance and get in there and help Mr. Varadkar, whom is doing a splendid job standing up to the DUP/Brexit border bullies.

There are plenty of republican English, Scottish and Welsh MPs who do just that.

It is blooming meaningless anyway and should be ditched across the board.....but that is a different debate for a different day.

I have a feeling SF are going to change this policy......particularly with Gerry standing down as leader shortly.

Already they have signalled a shift in policy toward abortion and his likely successor, Mary Lou MacDonald, has came out and declared herself pro-choice and they are going to take a vote on changing their policy, moving away from a strict no abortion dogma.

Hopefully the abstenionist policy will also change.

 

[Eggs]

...so it’s all ok now and we move on to the next phase. I suspect the reality is that the can has been kicked down the road and we’re no further on. It would be interesting if any further concessions have been made to the DUP to enable this.

 

[hullefc]

This has been a disaster for the DUP and for May. The DUP wanted to sit down with May and have face to face talks and were peeved when they didn't before Monday's debacle. The DUP were only ever against the words 'regulatory alignment' because it was proposed by Sinn Fein and was deemed by them to mean special status. Now, they have the worst of all worlds as it states that the north of the island of Ireland will remain in the Internal Market and the Customs Union - special status - if there is no agreement on a trade deal between the UK and the EU.

No hard border and special status. The DUP have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

[Tubey]

Ahahahahahahaha

Ohhh poor Nige, it's not the easy route back to ol' Britannia that exists in your psycopathic, nostalgia-ridden head is it? Diddums.

 

[Khalekan]

This has been a disaster for the DUP and for May. The DUP wanted to sit down with May and have face to face talks and were peeved when they didn't before Monday's debacle. The DUP were only ever against the words 'regulatory alignment' because it was proposed by Sinn Fein and was deemed by them to mean special status. Now, they have the worst of all worlds as it states that the north of the island of Ireland will remain in the Internal Market and the Customs Union - special status - if there is no agreement on a trade deal between the UK and the EU.

No hard border and special status. The DUP have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

I would not actually say it is a “disaster” for them.....it is a very sensible soloution and one which is in the best interests of Ireland and its people as a whole, including their own voters.

The DUP is like a child being made to swallow a dose of foul tasting medicine....they may not like the taste of it but it is very definitely for their own good.

As for May, practically every day is a “disaster” for the poor woman