Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[ToffeeTim]

The EU in its original form of a free trade union was great. Wedding movement of people with movement of goods and services, and then to throw in a common currency, that central governments can't control, oh and one that only half the countries use, then throw in some unelected judges who can trump national parliaments, then throw in some quotas to kill off some already struggling industries, and while we're at it sure lets have a joint army too...

Yeah great ideas. Phenomenal.

 

[roydo]

Yea, you're right. It was a throw away comment.
It's worth remembering that from 1921 to 1979 the Irish currency was tied to Sterling and it's value was dictated by Westminster and the city.

Loads of counties either tie, or actually use, another currency. Either their own is pure rubbish, or they CBA having one. When I was in the Caribean, the US $ was they only notes I saw.

 

[tsubaki]

The EU in its original form of a free trade union was great. Wedding movement of people with movement of goods and services, and then to throw in a common currency, that central governments can't control, oh and one that only half the countries use...

Yeah great ideas. Phenomenal.

Freedom of movement as implemented originally worked. A common currency would have worked if combined with common standards of employment, benefits and entitlements and taxation. The problems came when certain nations (not the UK) decided to look to their own interests.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Freedom of movement as implemented originally worked. A common currency would have worked if combined with common standards of employment, benefits and entitlements and taxation. The problems came when certain nations (not the UK) decided to look to their own interests.

The common currency can't work when the countries involved are so very different. Central governments have no mechanisms to control things either. It can't physically work. As we'v seen what simply happens is the biggest prosper (Germany) and the weak bear the brunt (Greece Ireland etc)

 

[abelard]

Every single issue discussed about Northern Ireland today would be solved by a free trade deal between the UK and the EU. Why are the EU not open to discussing? It's almost like they are more interested in getting customs and excise duties into their coffers....

I'm yet to hear any valid argument why a free trade deal couldn't take place.

As expected. Still waiting....

The EU has made clear that they are open to this, beginning after Britain completes its departure.

This is the so-called "Canada" option, which would allow Britain greater legislative capacity but vastly less access to and influence over EU markets and regulations than it enjoys now. And if the Canada negotiations are anything to go by, it could take a decade to complete, and it would have to be approved unanimously by all 27 members.

Why that would be preferable is... not something I can answer.

 

[Ruairi77]

"Over the past two years, Brexiteers have repeatedly mistaken their own wishful thinking for reality. It’s a state of mind only made possible by ignoring of Ireland’s present and its past, and by ducking a broader reckoning with the legacy of the British Empire. Such ignorance is the luxury of a powerful nation, and one that Britain can no longer afford."

Some tough talk in this article but it seems like a pretty accurate view in my book.
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2017/12/03/a-wake-up-call/

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Surely having a foot in both camps ie remaining in the customs union and being part of the UK could be potentially a very lucrative position for Northern Ireland to be.
Amazes me that the DUP are still so tied up in their old rhetoric that they can't see a good thing when it is hitting them square in the face.

The DUP don't do logic. "Ulster says No and Ulster shall be right"!

Every single issue discussed about Northern Ireland today would be solved by a free trade deal between the UK and the EU. Why are the EU not open to discussing? It's almost like they are more interested in getting customs and excise duties into their coffers....

Surely you agree that trade talks have to follow a first step where some key issues are settled? Remember the UK caused this issue so settling things like a debt payment, what happens to EU citizens and the Irish border all need to be settled in principle. At least it seems logical?

I wonder how those elements in its support who are in business and would stand for economic co-operation (staying within the customs union, embracing elements of the single market) but draw the line at Constitutional drift from the UK will react to such offers? Less 'staunch' than their leadership I'd imagine.

The DUP leadership are possibly shackled from accepting compromise by forces to its right who could make inroads on their votes if the whiff of a sell out was at large.

When the parties negotiating Brexit start up again soon it'll be merely another form of words to present the same idea of a different type of withdrawal for the EU by NI. There can be no other outcome as only when the RoI are happy can any deal be agreed.

Best thing all round is to have a general election which sees a single party majority outcome.

There's no remotely electable party to the right of the DUP in NI politics.

 

[Neiler]

There aleady is a hard border beyond Drogheda M1 toll.

Partition seems like a good idea in theory doesn’t it, nothing learned from the past.

Never ends well for either Island.

 

[Caolam]

Teresa May must be the worst Prime Minister ever. Imagine having to leave your lunch to have your a##e kicked by Arleen. Interesting couple of days coming up.

 

[hullefc]

The Tories agree a deal with Dublin for only to withdraw it in double quick time to save their political skin. There will soon be a bus with the words, 'Let's give our NHS the £350 million Northern Ireland takes every week'. The DUP have made May look idiotic and an absolute joke.

 

[peteblue]

The DUP have saved the UK from caving in, well done.......any fudge would have meant Scotland, London, Wallasey demanding their own arrangement. It happens to us all or it happens to none........

 

[Charlie Sweet]

The DUP have saved the UK from caving in, well done.......any fudge would have meant Scotland, London, Wallasey demanding their own arrangement. It happens to us all or it happens to none........

Rubbish. Northern Ireland already has a special status within the UK. There are numerous existing all-Ireland bodies that deal with everything from utilities to farming.

Plus don't forget the small matter that everyone born in NI automatically has the option of citizenship of Eire. Then bear in mind say 40% of the population consider themselves more Irish than British.

So yes - exactly like Wallasey

 

[peteblue]

Rubbish. Northern Ireland already has a special status within the UK. There are numerous existing all-Ireland bodies that deal with everything from utilities to farming.

Plus don't forget the small matter that everyone born in NI automatically has the option of citizenship of Eire. Then bear in mind say 40% of the population consider themselves more Irish than British.

So yes - exactly like Wallasey

NI is part of the U.K., end of story. One day it may not be, but while the are, they are part of the U.K. Ireland is part of the EU, like France or Greece, and while they are they are in the EU, unless one day they leave......

 

[Neiler]

NI is part of the U.K., end of story. One day it may not be, but while the are, they are part of the U.K. Ireland is part of the EU, like France or Greece, and while they are they are in the EU, unless one day they leave......

Your exactly right, it’s the first blink in the eye test really. Ireland are representing Europe on this, Ireland’s view will be Europe’s.

I suspect the Uk will cave though, I think it really wants to as well. The big show are the trade talks on the 14th, no caving or concessions here means the UK will get a battering on the 14th.

Fascinating to watch and May looks finished to me, either cave and DUP withdraw their vote, not in the interests of the DUP either or take an awful spanking next week and likely loose all political credibility.

To be honest this was always going to happen.

I wouldn’t be trying to play politics up in Northern Ireland either to make points, of all places you don’t want NI to unravel.

 

[peteblue]

Your exactly right, it’s the first blink in the eye test really. Ireland are representing Europe on this, Ireland’s view will be Europe’s.

I suspect the Uk will cave though, I think it really wants to as well. The big show are the trade talks on the 14th, no caving or concessions here means the UK will get a battering on the 14th.

Fascinating to watch and May looks finished to me, either cave and DUP withdraw their vote, not in the interests of the DUP either or take an awful spanking next week and likely loose all political credibility.

To be honest this was always going to happen.

I wouldn’t be trying to play politics up in Northern Ireland either to make points, of all places you don’t want NI to unravel.

Ireland should have no more a voice in this than Northern Ireland. They share a geographical piece of land, one country no more equal than the other. Brussels has given Dublin a veto or EU controlling voice in this regard, we should allow Belfast the same..........