It was their Andy Warhol moment.
And for the egotists at the top in that party, that is reward enough
Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit
- Thread starter Charlie Sweet
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It was their Andy Warhol moment.
And for the egotists at the top in that party, that is reward enough
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
That's short term though, surely? Deferring the Irish issue for another day when the single market, customs union transition arrangements end?
I'd have thought that the Unionists are laying traps for themselves for a de facto single island state on that side of the Irish Sea?
No it is long term. If the UK government decides to leave customs union and the single market it will still apply on the island of Ireland.
'The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South co-operation and to its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overreaching requirements. The United Kingdom's intentions is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relations. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and Customs Union, which now or in the future, support North-South co-operation'. In other words, Northern Ireland companies that trade on the island of Ireland will remain in the customs union and the single market as will the rest of the UK companies.
The DUP are attempting to save face by claiming that the north of Ireland will be leaving the customs union and the single market if the rest of the UK leaves.
Indeed.
And that is why big U Unionism went for broke and demanded a hard border.....the DUP detests Ireland and anything Irish.
They would build a wall stretching from Newry to Derry if they could
(although they would be better suited to a border drawn east of the Bann river, albeit they would still have a problem with Belfast)
They stand like King Canute trying to keep the tide of history at bay (and yes, I know Canute was trying to prove you cannot keep the tide at bay but the popular version of the tale works well in matters like this
)The partition of Ireland was only meant as a temporary solution in the first place...one day it will end and IMO Brexit is a big step along that road.
Small u unionism however, the people who travel back and forward between the North and the South and indeed between Ireland and GB, doing business or on pleasure are totally relaxed about the lack of a border.
Mrs. Foster is glossing it over by crowing she made sure there is "no border at the Irish Sea" when they were the only people who ever talked about that in the first place and just as a border cutting through their country is anathema to the northern nationalists, so is the idea of a border at Birkenhead, Dock Road, Bootle or at Speke.
And I know this as I am from a family of Belfast folk who settled in Liverpool and have spent a lifetime travelling back and forward there and had family from Belfast come in the opposite direction ever since I can remember.
I would be every bit as opposed to a sea border as I am to a land border.
tsubaki
Player Valuation: £90m
This is actually a much bigger concession from the EU than it is from the UK, tbh. Previously we were threatened that the EU internal market and customs union would only be offered if the deal was absolutely perfect to them, but the GFA probably mandates that we have to be in (as you say there cant be any difference between firms in NI and the UK mainland, so what is good for them is good for the rest).
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
The Scots can have one the moment they are physically attached to the ROI......
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
If there is no trade deal, everything is off the table....all that has happened is that the EU have moved the decision point, just like everyone said they must in order to understand what trade deal would be in place.......
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Unfortunately, not the case. This deal just highlights the reality of the situation on the island of Ireland in relation to the Belfast agreement.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Why is that not the case ?....it has been stated by everybody on all sides of the debate that ‘nothing is agreed until it’s all agreed’.......
But it has the people of NI remain European citizens because of that they and their institutions are still governed by European law, courts, rights etc etc is still the order of the day its a European state aligned to and funded by the UK. That's the real smoking gun here.
If I thought May was capable of such Machiavellian strategising I would say she played an absolute blinder on this.
By agreeing that NI must be treated no differently from GB but that the former will remain within some version of the. Customs Union she is in effect binding England to it as well and the “hard” Brexit people have been outflanked.
And she can use the Good Friday Agreement as cover for doing so as the provisions of that treaty, with its all Ireland regulatory bodies and cross pollination of business practices mean there is no other way Brexit in Ulster can be implemented.
Such supreme irony.
Farage is fuming about it and is already hinting that the Brexit battle might have to be fought again lol
However......May is no Florentine princeess and it really is the cock up version of history which has saved the day for Northern Ireland and quite possibly for England as well
By agreeing that NI must be treated no differently from GB but that the former will remain within some version of the. Customs Union she is in effect binding England to it as well and the “hard” Brexit people have been outflanked.
And she can use the Good Friday Agreement as cover for doing so as the provisions of that treaty, with its all Ireland regulatory bodies and cross pollination of business practices mean there is no other way Brexit in Ulster can be implemented.
Such supreme irony.
Farage is fuming about it and is already hinting that the Brexit battle might have to be fought again lol
However......May is no Florentine princeess and it really is the cock up version of history which has saved the day for Northern Ireland and quite possibly for England as well
If I thought May was capable of such Machiavellian strategising I would say she played an absolute blinder on this.
By agreeing that NI must be treated no differently from GB but that the former will remain within some version of the. Customs Union she is in effect binding England to it as well and the “hard” Brexit people have been outflanked.
And she can use the Good Friday Agreement as cover for doing so as the provisions of that treaty, with its all Ireland regulatory bodies and cross pollination of business practices mean there is no other way Brexit in Ulster can be implemented.
Such supreme irony.
Farage is fuming about it and is already hinting that the Brexit battle might have to be fought again lol
However......May is no Florentine princeess and it really is the cock up version of history which has saved the day for Northern Ireland and quite possibly for England as well
Ive seen that point made, but i really dont think that will be the case. For one thing half of Northern Ireland have Irish Citizenship - thus they are citizens of a European government but nationals of another the other half have the right to be Irish citizens and defacto European citizens. Of course there are British citizens, duel Citizens etc.
Neither Ireland or the Eu was ever going to cut half its citizens in NI adrift, the significance lies in as European citizens they have the same rights under European laws, to access its courts and other institutions so NI will remain a European state practically.
England, Wales, Scotland is a different case given that they are citizens of the UK only, though i think the Scots may bolt.
The negotiating chip in the North was citizenship under the GFA, no such thing will arise anywhere else in the UK. It will be a hard Brexit for the rest of the UK and NI being a defacto European state albeit a bit of show ponying here and there.
if the last week is evidence of what is to come Europe are calling the shots on Brexit, if anything they are being patient, helpful and assistive to the UK who strategy and negotiations seem a bit haphazard.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Apart from the likes of Farage it’s very difficult for anyone to attack her at the moment. She is steering a Middle course trying to keep both Remainers and Leavers on side. Labour are reduced to saying that they want a good deal and the poor old LibDem leader doesn’t know what to say or complain about. The EU know they have to keep her in office because Corbyn is an idiot and Boris might just walk away, so they had to move to discussions on trade. I think she is a weak negotiator, but by god she’s a crafty politician.......
Because no matter what is agreed, the GFA is enshrined in international law, signed by both the British and Irish governments and registered at the United Nations, and in order to continue implementing its regulations the north and south of Ireland must remain joined at the hip, in recognition of the particular set of circumstances which necessitated it in the first place.
The other alternative is for the UK to recognise the reality of the situation in Ireland, particularly along the Irish border and take up the “special status” for Ulster option.
Which is eminently sensible IMO.
I have been saying here all along that Brexit in Northern Ireland is a totally different kettle of bananas to what it is in England, where there is consensus government......Brexit is not one size fits all.
A totally different approach needs to be taken in Ulster, Pete.
My own opinion is that May eventually lost patience with the DUP, raised the spectre of Jezza Corbyn and let them know that they need her as much as she needs them.....probably more so.
Hence this new deal which is apparently just a sentence or four different to the one they had agreed on Monday
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