Current Affairs Irish Border and Brexit

[peteblue]

Worth a read....rather superficial but still worth a look....

https://merrionstreet.ie/MerrionStreet/en/News-Room/Releases/No_Deal_Brexit_Contingency_Plan.pdf

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

SF pushing today for a border poll to be brought forward if the UK leaves the EU with no deal.

"If politicians in Britain recklessly allow a no deal, hard crash outcome then the holding of a border poll must be brought forward as the people North and South will have a clear choice - a hard border or a United Ireland." - Sinn Féin Brexit spokesperson David Cullinane TD.

Amazing that the hard Brexiteers are prepared to sacrifice the probable breakup of their own country to get their way.

 

[Ballymoney1]

SF pushing today for a border poll to be brought forward if the UK leaves the EU with no deal.

"If politicians in Britain recklessly allow a no deal, hard crash outcome then the holding of a border poll must be brought forward as the people North and South will have a clear choice - a hard border or a United Ireland." - Sinn Féin Brexit spokesperson David Cullinane TD.

Amazing that the hard Brexiteers are prepared to sacrifice the probable breakup of their own country to get their way.

Even more amazing that the most ardent Brexiteers are the DUP. Talk about Turkeys voting for Christmas!

 

[Armaghtoffee]

SF pushing today for a border poll to be brought forward if the UK leaves the EU with no deal.

"If politicians in Britain recklessly allow a no deal, hard crash outcome then the holding of a border poll must be brought forward as the people North and South will have a clear choice - a hard border or a United Ireland." - Sinn Féin Brexit spokesperson David Cullinane TD.

Amazing that the hard Brexiteers are prepared to sacrifice the probable breakup of their own country to get their way.

Golden opportunity for Republicans this, all delivered direct from Westminster.

Scotland will feed off this as well of course and maybe this time will make the break.

 

[peteblue]

While all you Nationalists think this will be to your advantage, I would suggest that Varadkar has overplayed his hand. He has caused a problem with the backstop and if it goes to no deal because of it then the ROI will suffer the most. In terms of will there be a vote for a United Ireland, if that’s what the people want then so be it, but I’m not so sure you will get the result you wish for......

In terms of Scotland, I would willingly vote for them to leave.....

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

While all you Nationalists think this will be to your advantage, I would suggest that Varadkar has overplayed his hand. He has caused a problem with the backstop and if it goes to no deal because of it then the ROI will suffer the most. In terms of will there be a vote for a United Ireland, if that’s what the people want then so be it, but I’m not so sure you will get the result you wish for......

In terms of Scotland, I would willingly vote for them to leave.....

Caused YOU a problem you mean.

You must excuse our Taoiseach for looking after the interests of the country he leads and represents. How dare he.

Yes if it goes to no deal Ireland will suffer the most, but that won't be our fault it will be yours. And you won't be forgiven easily, hence the increased chance of a a border poll which may result in NI leaving the UK.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

While all you Nationalists think this will be to your advantage, I would suggest that Varadkar has overplayed his hand. He has caused a problem with the backstop and if it goes to no deal because of it then the ROI will suffer the most. In terms of will there be a vote for a United Ireland, if that’s what the people want then so be it, but I’m not so sure you will get the result you wish for......

In terms of Scotland, I would willingly vote for them to leave.....

Utter rubbish. This border is of the UK's making. It is blindingly obvious that this issue has been kicked down the road for decades by the British, and their bluff has been called now. In no way has Varadkar overplayed his hand. The backstop safeguards the Good Friday Agreement which committed to no hard border on the island of Ireland. These clowns on the Brexit side of the argument have said that they have a solution to the border issue without once putting up what their solution is. There are two solutions here, and two only. A hard border through 300 miles of Irish land or a united Ireland.
Or maybe you have a solution since we last discussed this Pete, apart from your 'it'll be alright on the day' nonsense.

 

[peteblue]

Utter rubbish. This border is of the UK's making. It is blindingly obvious that this issue has been kicked down the road for decades by the British, and their bluff has been called now. In no way has Varadkar overplayed his hand. The backstop safeguards the Good Friday Agreement which committed to no hard border on the island of Ireland. These clowns on the Brexit side of the argument have said that they have a solution to the border issue without once putting up what their solution is. There are two solutions here, and two only. A hard border through 300 miles of Irish land or a united Ireland.
Or maybe you have a solution since we last discussed this Pete, apart from your 'it'll be alright on the day' nonsense.

I assume you didn’t read the ROI document on a no deal....

 

[peteblue]

Caused YOU a problem you mean.

You must excuse our Taoiseach for looking after the interests of the country he leads and represents. How dare he.

Yes if it goes to no deal Ireland will suffer the most, but that won't be our fault it will be yours. And you won't be forgiven easily, hence the increased chance of a a border poll which may result in NI leaving the UK.

Of course he caused us a problem. However if we go for no deal then the problem goes back to him and the E.U.

Whose fault it is is irrelevant. The ROI will be in dire trouble. Your Taoiseach played a very political game, aiming for a United Ireland. However a no deal will smack him firmly across the arse, and I hope you all enjoy his looking after your interests......

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

I assume you didn’t read the ROI document on a no deal....

You also assume that all will be well after Brexit, and assume that there will be a way through the backstop issue. I assume you don't have a solution to the backstop problem. I also note that you dodged my statement about you not having such a solution since our last discussion.
For what it's worth, I know all about Ireland's position on Brexit and the backstop issue.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Of course he caused us a problem. However if we go for no deal then the problem goes back to him and the E.U.

Whose fault it is is irrelevant. The ROI will be in dire trouble. Your Taoiseach played a very political game, aiming for a United Ireland. However a no deal will smack him firmly across the arse, and I hope you all enjoy his looking after your interests......

Project fear Pete and a bitter one at that.

Ireland has blocked Brexit by accident due to England’s imperial history.

England agreed the GFA agreement to stop IRA bombs and to try an achieve a settlement. Now London is desperately trying to cast blame somewhere for the realisation that the empire is ancient history.

You wish for a no deal and you yet know what it will do to Ireland. You disregard those who live here and regard themselves as British.

You pontificate about what a larger political body is doing to a minority yet scornfully jibe at what Ireland faces at a no deal.

Irony is lost on you.

 

[Khalekan]

SF pushing today for a border poll to be brought forward if the UK leaves the EU with no deal.

"If politicians in Britain recklessly allow a no deal, hard crash outcome then the holding of a border poll must be brought forward as the people North and South will have a clear choice - a hard border or a United Ireland." - Sinn Féin Brexit spokesperson David Cullinane TD.

Amazing that the hard Brexiteers are prepared to sacrifice the probable breakup of their own country to get their way.

SF would be better shuting the heck up and getting into Westminster and making their voices heard.

There is going to be no Border Poll in the event of a No Deal Brexit as only the English government can call one.

Who would organise such a Poll.....certainly not the British as the DUP would still have the Tories by the short and curliies.

And given the antics of Corbyn recently, if such a Poll were to be called the Labour Party would side with Sammy Tache and his chums.

Yet another red herring from a party which has marginalised itself both in London and Belfast.....the decision to pull the plug on Stormont has blown up spectacularly in their faces......and the mindless, dogged adherence to an “abstenionist” poloicy which was implemented in 1906 and which was copied from Hungarian separatists in the 19th century is nowt more than self defeating stupidity.

 

[Carl O'Ancelotti]

SF would be better shuting the heck up and getting into Westminster and making their voices heard.

There is going to be no Border Poll in the event of a No Deal Brexit as only the English government can call one.

Who would organise such a Poll.....certainly not the British as the DUP would still have the Tories by the short and curliies.

And given the antics of Corbyn recently, if such a Poll were to be called the Labour Party would side with Sammy Tache and his chums.

Yet another red herring from a party which has marginalised itself both in London and Belfast.....the decision to pull the plug on Stormont has blown up spectacularly in their faces......and the mindless, dogged adherence to an “abstenionist” poloicy which was implemented in 1906 and which was copied from Hungarian separatists in the 19th century is nowt more than self defeating stupidity.

Not sure I agree with you on this point Khal although I respect your point of view.

You don't take up seats in a parliament in what you consider to be a foreign country. Imagine what a quarter empty House of Commons would have looked like after the 1918 GE when SF MPs did not take their seats. It would likely have resembled and echo chamber and the message would have been strongly conveyed to the British government that they had refused to accept the democratic will of the Irish people. Fast forward 100 years and the message is the same.

Despite the effect it might have on Brexit, SF were elected on an absentionist mandate and they would look foolish if they abandoned it at this stage. They are playing the long game in the same way as the left of the Labour Party are; Brexit helps them achieve their long-term aim as it also does with the Labour left.

Being from the Hume/Mallon school of thought myself I don't necessarily agree with what they are doing but I understand totally why they are doing it.

Regarding a border poll, the only person that can call it is the Sec of State for NI, and if there is enough public support for one he/she will be forced to allow it.

 

[Neiler]

Just to make the point with the wang waving between, the British and ROI.

Both have historically had and in the future will have little influence and control on NI, it is what the communities in NI decide to do.

If the communitees in NI decide on a certain course of action, be it peaceful or not (hopefully the first), nothing London and Dublin can do about it’s control it.

Has noone learned anything from recent History, NI is ungovernable if one part of the community puts it mind to it.

London and Dublin, playing with fire and very underestimating of the Pandora’s box that could be opened that they have proven in the past they couldnt and never hope to control. It’s massively hubris to think otherwise IMO.

Put a border up, see what happens. Have a referendum on a U.I. See what happens.

Both countries are playing with forces beyond their control IMHO.

 

[peteblue]

Project fear Pete and a bitter one at that.

Ireland has blocked Brexit by accident due to England’s imperial history.

England agreed the GFA agreement to stop IRA bombs and to try an achieve a settlement. Now London is desperately trying to cast blame somewhere for the realisation that the empire is ancient history.

You wish for a no deal and you yet know what it will do to Ireland. You disregard those who live here and regard themselves as British.

You pontificate about what a larger political body is doing to a minority yet scornfully jibe at what Ireland faces at a no deal.

Irony is lost on you.

If you read the document I posted, even the ROI are stating that there will be no restriction on movement of people between the U.K. and ROI and that agreement predates joining the E.U......