Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

[joey_macmo]

It's not really.

Assuming a player, from a team you support, has to have been racially abused, to push a player in to advertising boards is naive.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen but no lip readers have backed it up. Even if it did happen, and I'm not saying it didn't, there's no proof and without proof you should assume innocence.

All that’s great apart from the fact you’ve got the sequence of events wrong.

However you’ve just accused our player of fabricating a racist accusation to get out of a red card. An interesting strategy considering he manhandled the referee in the process.

Again mate it’s an absolutely ridiculous theory and a pretty despicable opinion to have if I’m honest.

 

[phil_t98]

this has took to long, the FA are dragging there feet over this. To me it doesn't look good for Holgate that its taking so long
I can't believe that he has potentially been abused racial on the pitch and the FA are looking at his tweets. the FA are
having a stinker. The kick racism out of football campaign should be going mad publicly at how this has been turned around
and taken so long. Its like its been swept under the carpet, also the tweets I have seen against Holgate are dispicible the fan
base saying Firminio isn't racist but they are with some of the most racist things been said on twitter against Holgate

sorry rant over

 

[robbo1957]

IMHO why would Holgate suggest this knowing all the technology that might be brought into play to either confirm or refute his allegation. Did he know the camera angle would block the view? Or know the referee couldn't hear it? I think from his reaction him either heard something or thought he did.
It'll come down to he said she said and the FA will find case not proven.
Apologies if this had already been posted in some form but just too many pages.

 

[Yarrgh]

Has anyone found any footage of the incident where Firmino's mouth is not obscured by Kenny's head yet?

Because if it exists, it will find its way into the public domain. I wouldn't be surprised if it was still open to interpretation even if it exists. It could be a real hand grenade if it isn't 100% clear what he says. This is my theory. I suspect the FA is in a real boggy situation with this, with both parties ready to contest whatever the verdict is.

As for the tweets, poor form from the 15 year old. Not relevant to this case. I suspect that Holgate could take the sting out of them with the club's help with an apology and some kind of gesture with Mason making amends and participating with the club's efforts in engaging with the LGBT community. The fact that he has not said anything in 6 years and was a minor during the tweets, should show that any further action is not needed and egregious, with Mason owning his mistakes and rectifying them and creating far more positive outcome than a ban or penalty against him would. Something that Fermino would probably be advised to do something along these lines as well - it might even help the case to be dropped and some bridges built. It would be a win-win scenario for fighting against homophobia and racism.

 

[longers]

Has anyone found any footage of the incident where Firmino's mouth is not obscured by Kenny's head yet?

How are you expecting people to find footage of something which wasn't broadcast on television ? the FA and Broadcasters are the only ones with access to any alternate angles that may exist.

 

[4737carlin]

This is the 6th day since this happened, a TV game seen by many and nothing from the FA or anyone else, pathetic really but expect nothing less, I've npt re watched it but I do recall Holgate grabbing the ref as just mentioned above, that alone is a card, but even that went unpunished, to flip that much a very large button must of been pressed

 

[Saint Domingo]

You’d have to be pretty certain if the accusation to go to see the referee after the heat of the match has died down. If there was any doubt you would err on the side of caution especially given that it highlights the pushing incident too. So many questions like why didn’t the red book Holgate for the push, why did Holgate grab the ref, why was there a brawl with Holgate completely irate? Why did the ref go over to the 4th official? Why did no one get booked after the brawl? None of it makes sense, hopefully the FA have an explanation for the whole thing.

 

[Deckard2049]

This is the 6th day since this happened, a TV game seen by many and nothing from the FA or anyone else, pathetic really but expect nothing less, I've npt re watched it but I do recall Holgate grabbing the ref as just mentioned above, that alone is a card, but even that went unpunished, to flip that much a very large button must of been pressed

Everyone both red and blue seems really impatient regarding this matter. I googled last night the Suarez/Evra incident and following the match where the abuse took place it was a whole month before the FA officially charged Suarez. It’s been 6 days, not a long time at all really. Obviously back then the FA really didn’t have much in place to deal with this kind of thing and there’s still questions over their competency, but until they actually release a statement and charge/don’t charge Firmino there’s no point really debating this. Their silence doesn’t indicate anytning other than that their is an investigation ongoing.

If people think after the public embarrassment they received after the Aluko incident that this is just going to be swept under the carpet then they’re mistaken.

 

[radiostar]

Think by this stage it's starting to look like Holgate thought he heard negro, in which case he's entitled to flip. But he's mis heard something else in a noisy stadium with team mates rushing over saying stuff, might have sounded like negro to him, but the ref, Jags, lallana haven't reacted at all and it's fair to say if any of them had heard something they would have all reacted. Going in on a lads tweets when he was 15 is obsurd. Not even sure why that's being investigated.

 

[Yarrgh]

How are you expecting people to find footage of something which wasn't broadcast on television ? the FA and Broadcasters are the only ones with access to any alternate angles that may exist.

No one on the ipad/ phone? Any report that the footage not shown on the tv can shed any light on this? Where's the news on this if any?

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Think by this stage it's starting to look like Holgate thought he heard negro, in which case he's entitled to flip. But he's mis heard something else in a noisy stadium with team mates rushing over saying stuff, might have sounded like negro to him, but the ref, Jags, lallana haven't reacted at all and it's fair to say if any of them had heard something they would have all reacted. Going in on a lads tweets when he was 15 is obsurd. Not even sure why that's being investigated.

You think Jagielka would have voiced his concerns? He's usually too busy avoiding confrontation by pretending to tie his shoelaces.

 

[Bluewolf]

Firmino has been offered a new contract. Has to make you laugh their a different breed over the park. One of their players gets accused of racist behaviour on a football pitch and they try to give him a pay rise, Disgusting really.

The problem with all this for me is there's no public outcry for anything to be done about it, in fact just the opposite is happening. Nothing from the club, nothing from the media, nothing from the fan base and nothing from anyof the anti racist groups (kick it out).

It's more likely that the lad who made the accusations of being racially abused will receive a ban because of something he posted when he was 15. There is media pressure over these tweets and there is a outcry from a certain fan base.

That's all the FA cares about, taking care of media pressure. This is the problem with having a governing body that is mostly elderly, white, upper class and male. What in the blue blazes do they care about racism or homophobia? Nothing in a good way. All they care about is how they are perceived in the media unfortunately.

 

[joey_macmo]

Kick it out released a statement on Monday iirc

 

[Ron Swanson]

Firmino has been offered a new contract. Has to make you laugh their a different breed over the park. One of their players gets accused of racist behaviour on a football pitch and they try to give him a pay rise, Disgusting really.

The problem with all this for me is there's no public outcry for anything to be done about it, in fact just the opposite is happening. Nothing from the club, nothing from the media, nothing from the fan base and nothing from anyof the anti racist groups (kick it out).

It's more likely that the lad who made the accusations of being racially abused will receive a ban because of something he posted when he was 15. There is media pressure over these tweets and there is a outcry from a certain fan base.

That's all the FA cares about, taking care of media pressure. This is the problem with having a governing body that is mostly elderly, white, upper class and male. What in the blue blazes do they care about racism or homophobia? Nothing in a good way. All they care about is how they are perceived in the media unfortunately.

He has been ACCUSED of racist behaviour. As it stands, the response from everyone you named has absolutely been the correct one - to offer restraint and allow a thorough investigation to be conducted.

The response from many fans on both sides of the park has, by contrast, been quite vile. I really do not understand partisan 'defend everything' fans when it comes to issues like this.

 

[TraffordBlue]

No one seems to have any proof of anything.

I don't know what happened, along with 99% of people, but without any evidence the FA should not punish either player.

It's not really.

Assuming a player, from a team you support, has to have been racially abused, to push a player in to advertising boards is naive.

Doesn't mean it didn't happen but no lip readers have backed it up. Even if it did happen, and I'm not saying it didn't, there's no proof and without proof you should assume innocence.

So why are you repeating this complete nonsense about the lip readers? The lip readers have confirmed one thing...that Firmino did not racially abuse Holgate before Holgate alleged he had. You can see from the footage that Firmino is shouting at him in Portugese and Holgate does not react. Therefore this part of the 'evidence/proof' is absolutely 100% irrelevant to the allegation that followed.

The part that needs to be investigated is what was said at the point that Holgate reacts. The 99% you mention (both you and I included as well as the lip reader who gave his opinion to the Mirror), have no way of telling what Firmino said because Kenny's head was obscuring Firmino.

Not that hard to understand yet loads have fallen for this media/Liverpool fan manipulation of the incident.