Current Affairs George Floyd and Minneapolis Unrest

[mill]

The way I look at it all is this. If we live in a pure meritocracy in the U.K., why are positions of power in so many realms dominated by white men?

they are over represented in the upper echelons of law, business, education, government, football (how people of colour represented by PL managers compared to c25% of footballers being people of colour).

Do you think that white men are intrinsically better suited to leadership due to some kind of biological reason?

if not, then work your way back from there and you will find lots of structural reasons for over representation.

 

[mezzrow]

Aye @mezzrow, you post some weird stuff man

It's been my pleasure. Answer this Prev, if you please.

Are you currently standing or sitting still, moving at hundreds of mph, moving at thousands of mph, or moving at millions of mph?

Which of these, if any?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I have witnessed various forms of institutional racism, from a place I worked at binning applications from people with foreign sounding names, to an Asian mate always getting stopped at customs. Unreal. I imagine many of the same lads were admonishing labour for antisemitism. I can’t believe they can leave the house each day unaided

I’ve seen similar. I worked for quite a large company a few years back who got prosecuted for discrimination. An applicant sent in 2 identical CV’s, same educational attainments, same level of experience etc. He got a come on down for an interview Mr Smith, no thanks all the same Mr Patel.

Was the company institutionally racist? Not in my opinion no, I saw no signs of it. However, were people with racial prejudices in positions where they were making decisions that were either consciously or sub consciously guided by their racist views? Well, demonstrably yes.

That’s one of the reasons why I find the comments denying that racism is institutionally present in our society so laughable, as it completely denies the reality, that it exists everyday within institutions, without necessarily being cultural.

 

[Prevenger17]

Are you currently standing or sitting still, moving at hundreds of mph, moving at thousands of mph, or moving at millions of mph?

I'm sitting on the loo reading the political section of a football forum. Are you trying to shame me Mezz??

 

[mezzrow]

I'm sitting on the loo reading the political section of a football forum. Are you trying to shame me Mezz??

Never. Just pick one. The question still holds. Most of my GOT reading takes place in a similar venue, tbh.

 

[jaycee]

I must say, I have enjoyed reading posts from loads of honkies, saying there’s no such thing as institutional racism. Brilliant stuff

Obviously only white people had the correct shaped cranium to solve racism

 

[Debunkology]

Aye, the man and the ball are coalescing more and more these days into some sort of grotesque man-ball. Debunkology's posts read like he was a bubble child who was forced to listen to nothing but Ben Shapiro podcasts for 10 years as part of a social experiment.

The sad thing is that any poor child indoctrinated in that manner would actually still end up as a far more empathetic, intelligent and functional human being than @Debunkology

Oh here we go. The far-lefties (communists) are losing the argument again so resorting to snide comments and quoting each other. Never seen this before. hahaha


The Modern Left:





The Result:

 

[Moomin]

Oh here we go. The far-lefties (communists) are losing the argument again so resorting to snide comments and quoting each other. Never seen this before. hahaha


The Modern Left:



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The Result:

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Amazing that you can tell peoples political leanings from pictures.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Forgiveness is a major theme throughout the ministry of Jesus. The passage in Matthew 6:14-15 is a continuation of Matthew 6:12. It is as if Jesus finishes the prayer and then has an addendum to the prayer. He states, For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Jesus does not imply that His forgiveness is conditional but God’s forgiveness is founded in His grace. The basis of this request is that we can extend forgiveness to others in the same way that God extends forgiveness to us.

This is revolutionary.

It is more the difference between the theory and the practice where I fall down Mezz, as the writer himself wrote
“As Tocqueville put it in Democracy in America, “Christianity declared the equality of all men; and yet American Christians introduced slavery into their country.” America: the country where Christianity held sway, and where Christians betrayed what Christianity proclaimed.”

So, as we’re talking about forgiveness, please forgive me if I’m a tad skeptical of this “If by some divine good fortune, Christianity someday fully takes hold, it will be inconceivable for us to think of ourselves in terms of members of blood nations, or to think of justice in terms of blood retribution. We will all be “adopted sons and daughters of God” (Rom. 8:15, 9:26; Galatians 3:26), whose merely genetic markers of peoplehood—exhumed these days by 23andMe and by Ancestry.com—tell us nothing, really, about who we are. In such a world, there will be no nations and peoples, only persons, who know that their transgression, their stain, runs so deep that only Christ can cure it. In such a world, “racism”—the belief that one group, one people, can achieve purity by venting cathartic rage upon another—would be unthinkable.”

 

[Kiwi]

Oh here we go. The far-lefties (communists) are losing the argument again so resorting to snide comments and quoting each other. Never seen this before. hahaha


The Modern Left:



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The Result:

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Shout louder to your self-congratulatory echo chamber darling.
I'm no communist, but you are a hate-filled sad man.

 

[cronullasharks]

Oh here we go. The far-lefties (communists) are losing the argument again so resorting to snide comments and quoting each other. Never seen this before. hahaha


The Modern Left:



View attachment 90082

The Result:

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@JimmyJeffers is this that brawl you started at Forest Green last season (bottom picture)?

 

[verreauxi]

The authors of the paper replied to Knox and Mummulo.

See here:

Correction for Johnson et al., Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

PSYCHOLOGICAL AND COGNITIVE SCIENCES Correction for “Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings,” by David J. Johnson, Trevor Tress, Nicole Burkel, Carley Taylor, and Joseph Cesario, which was first published July 22, 2019; 10.1073/pnas.1903856116 ( Proc...

www.pnas.org

“Although we were clear about the quantity we estimated and provide justification for calculating Pr(race|shot, X) in our report (see also 2, 3), we want to correct a sentence in our significance statement that has been quoted by others stating ‘White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers.’ This sentence refers to estimating Pr(shot|race, X). As we estimated Pr(race|shot, X), this sentence should read: ‘As the proportion of White officers in a fatal officer-involved shooting increased, a person fatally shot was not more likely to be of a racial minority.’ This is consistent with our framing of the results in the abstract and main text.

“We appreciate the feedback that led us to clarify this sentence (4). To be clear, this issue does not invalidate the findings with regards to Pr(race|shot, X) discussed in the report.”

Yes, I read their reply and remain unconvinced by their analysis. We can all quote mine (which is what I suspect you are doing) but you need to put their whole analysis under scrutinty, and when you do, it is not a robust one. For example, they didn't make a convincing response Schimmack and Carlsson either. I'm sorry this doesn't agree with what you are trying to suggest.

And again, this paper only addresses police shootings in 2015 not other use-of-force killings that are widely documented (Freddie Gray, George Floyd, Eric Garner).

And again: they are simply wrong, as shown convincingly here: https://replicationindex.com/2019/1...vilians-a-coding-error-in-johnson-et-al-2019/
And here: https://replicationindex.files.word...ce.shootings.commentary.500.word_.version.pdf

Since you like to quote mine, I'll make it easy for you: In 2019, Johnson, Tress, Burke, Taylor, and Cesario published an article on racial disparities in fatal shootings by police officers in PNAS (2). Their publication became the topic of a heated exchange in the Oversight Hearing on Policing Practices in the House Committee on the Judiciary on September 19, 2019. Heather Mac Donald cited the article as evidence that there is no racial disparity in fatal police shootings. Based on the article, she also claimed “In fact, black civilians are shot less, compared with whites, than their rates of violent crime would predict” (3). Immediately after her testimony, Phillip Atiba Goff challenged her claims and pointed out that the article had been criticized (4). In a rebuttal, Heather MacDonald cited Johnson from the authors response that the authors stand by their finding (5). Here we show that the authors’ conclusions are based on a statistical error in their analyses.

So it's not peer reviewed just because you say so. How I did not expect that coming.

It is widely known that PNAS "direct submissions" are not always peer-reviewed. This is stated on their website. The authors do not thank anonymous reviewers as is standard practice. Also, the article sat on the psyarchiv preprint server where it garnered feedback from Knox and Mummulo, but their critique wasn't corrected in the final publication suggesting that it wasn't sent out for peer-review. You can email the lead author, Johnson, and ask him if his paper was sent out for anonymous peer review.

We already know that “minority suspects are disproportionately killed by police”. According to the U.S Department of Justice, Black people are 7x more likely to murder somebody and they are over-represented across the board in violent crime and homicide.

While white cops are found to be no more likely to kill black people than black/hispanic cops. According to the US department of Justice. Black people are far more likely to kill white people.

Homicide Trends in the United States, 1980-2008 (US Department of Justice)

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

If you are part of a group that is over represented in committing crimes. You will part of a group that is over represented in victims of a police force.

Nope. The central issue is that if you are involved in a use-of-force arrest are you more likely to die because of the color of your skin? That black people commit more violent crimes (as you love to point out) is thus figured into the studies on racial bias. If more black people commit crimes, then they are more likely to be arrested (i.e., arrest rates are higher) and then--and this is the central issue--are black people, when arrested, more likely to die at the hands of police than non-blacks. The answer is yes, and this is documented in numerous studies, which...erm, uh, I shouldn't have to point out to you because you apparently read the peer-reviewed literature (<--though no one, including you, actually believes that).

 

[Kiwi]

It is more the difference between the theory and the practice where I fall down Mezz, as the writer himself wrote
“As Tocqueville put it in Democracy in America, “Christianity declared the equality of all men; and yet American Christians introduced slavery into their country.” America: the country where Christianity held sway, and where Christians betrayed what Christianity proclaimed.”

So, as we’re talking about forgiveness, please forgive me if I’m a tad skeptical of this “ In such a world, there will be no nations and peoples, only persons, who know that their transgression, their stain, runs so deep that only Christ can cure it. In such a world, “racism”—the belief that one group, one people, can achieve purity by venting cathartic rage upon another—would be unthinkable.”

Perhaps one of the most interesting trends in the history of Christianity IMO is the relationship with slavery throughout, first within the Roman Empire with it becoming widespread through the slaves of the empire due to its doctrine of all men are equal before spreading to the elite. Followed by the British Empire with the sea of changes from promoting to fighting slavery within the empire, to Missionaries in Africa on the Slave routes and then the relationship of the "christian" southern states and its not so Christian attitude towards slavery and racial equality.

 

[LinekersLegs]

So you're not black, and therefore would never experience racial discrimination that black people can exerience, yet claim skin colour wouldn't matter whether someone gets a job. It shouldn't, but unfortunately it does.

Found this a really interesting bit

American Racism: We’ve Got So Very Far to Go

And the journey must continue step-by-step.

t.co

Maybe that describes you, but I now realize it didn’t describe me. I freely confess that to some extent where I stood on American racial issues was dictated by where I sat my entire life. I always deplored racism—those values were instilled in me from birth—but I was also someone who recoiled at words like “systemic racism.” I looked at the strides we’d made since slavery and Jim Crow and said, “Look how far we’ve come.” I was less apt to say, “and look how much farther we have to go.”

Then, where I sit changed, dramatically. I just didn’t know it at the time. I went from being the father of two white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed kids to the father of three kids—one of them a beautiful little girl from Ethiopia. When Naomi arrived, our experiences changed. Strange incidents started to happen.

There was the white woman who demanded that Naomi—the only black girl in our neighborhood pool—point out her parents, in spite of the fact that she was clearly wearing the colored bracelet showing she was permitted to swim. There was the time a police officer approached her at a department store and questioned her about who she was with and what she was shopping for. That never happened to my oldest daughter. There was the classmate who told Naomi that she couldn’t come to our house for a play date because, “My dad says it’s dangerous to go black people’s neighborhoods.”

I could go on, and—sure—some of the incidents could have a benign explanation, but as they multiplied, and it was clear that Naomi’s experience was clearly different from her siblings, it became increasingly implausible that all the explanations were benign.

 

[Debunkology]

Shout louder to your self-congratulatory echo chamber darling.
I'm no communist, but you are a hate-filled sad man.

1.) If there is any echo chamber that I'm part of, it's clearly in the Current Affairs forum of GOT. Filled with a massive far left clique.

2.) Believing my country or the USA is not institutionally racist does not fill me with hate. However I've got plenty of hate on here for believing that.

3.) Identity politics is resulting in disastrous results for left-leaning parties in the USA and UK. Labour having their worst election result in 80 years. People are leaving the left in droves.

4.) I do not identity with the left anymore. Despite my political beliefs being slightly left of centre. Which shows how radical the left has become.