Current Affairs General US politics (ie, not POTUS related)

[LinekersLegs]

Not sure how sexual assault is any form of identity politics tbh.

And on that note I'd like to ask indulgence for going off topic for a moment to post a link to RAINNs donation page - whatever your politics the past couple of weeks have been very tough on a lot of sexual assault victims and RAINN have been experiencing huge call/text volume and am sure they would appreciate a helping hand.

https://donate.rainn.org/

 

[Ghoat]

I've been reading about McConnell. It's disturbing what he has gotten away with. He has butchered democracy in the USA. This may go on for generations. The mostly Republican Supreme Court will now favour right wing policy and unjust laws that favour the wealthy and privileged. This will create greater divides in American society. Abortion, healthcare, civil rights, corporations unaccountable to anybody, tax cuts for the rich, it goes on. Scary times for our American friends.

I won't pretend to really have my head around UK politics, parties, leanings and such beyond a general understanding.

So you may not realize that "liberal" and "conservative" in a judicial sense refers to how literally the interpret law. It doesn't have the some connotation as it does to left and right on the political spectrum. They are often used interchangeably when someone disagrees with a ruling to blame it on the other political spectrum, but it's not too accurate. In very broad terms a liberal Justice is more like to read the constitution as a "breathing document" and infer how what was written 200 years ago would be expressed in today's terms. Whereas a conservative is more likely to read the wording as literal, expecting the issue to fit into the law instead of the law conforming to the issue. They are more reticent to extend new freedoms or restrictions, and also more reticent to overturn SCOTUS rulings.

Both are needed IMO. I don't ever want to see a 7-2 balance on either side. But that fact remains, philosophy aside, over 50% of SCOTUS rulings are 9-0

 

[LinekersLegs]

I won't pretend to really have my head around UK politics, parties, leanings and such beyond a general understanding.

So you may not realize that "liberal" and "conservative" in a judicial sense refers to how literally the interpret law. It doesn't have the some connotation as it does to left and right on the political spectrum. They are often used interchangeably when someone disagrees with a ruling to blame it on the other political spectrum, but it's not too accurate. In very broad terms a liberal Justice is more like to read the constitution as a "breathing document" and infer how what was written 200 years ago would be expressed in today's terms. Whereas a conservative is more likely to read the wording as literal, expecting the issue to fit into the law instead of the law conforming to the issue. They are more reticent to extend new freedoms or restrictions, and also more reticent to overturn SCOTUS rulings.

Both are needed IMO. I don't ever want to see a 7-2 balance on either side. But that fact remains, philosophy aside, over 50% of SCOTUS rulings are 9-0

I think that assumption might be put to the test over the next few years.

Collins in particular seemed to be painting an image of Kavanaugh in her speech that was markedly different to how many Republicans expect Kav to vote, especially on what is “settled law”

 

[Ghoat]

Pretty much this.

I can't argue too much. Yeah, I can say "well the Binden's idea when it looked like it may not go their way" So Garland was fair. Which makes Kavanaugh fair. And it won't ever end.

Exactly like the "nuclear option" GOP proposed/threatened it, but never used it. Democrats used it based on the fact GOP had suggested it, GOP used it for SCOTUS appointments because the dems used it.

As an aside, that's what I took Kavanaugh's "what comes around goes around" comment to mean. Not that he was going to get them back, but that the GOP would pull the same crap on them when they got the chance. Regardless of what he meant, that's an inside voice thought, not something you say out loud.

I REALLY don't like a simple majority of 51 vs 60. Period, at all. But as long as each side can legitimately say "just doing what you did" neither has take responsibility for being their actions. How many of us can do that at our job and shrug at the boss and go "he/she" started it?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Don't take my word for it, this case is just blatantly connected to identity-politics:

The Limits of #MeToo: Sectionalism, Economism, and “Identity Politics” on the Left

In the #MeToo era, identity politics has veered away from its roots. A misuse of identity is not just a conservative problem.

As the Kavanaugh backlash shows, #MeToo hasn't gone far enough

The Kavanaugh Hearings Are Hurting #MeToo





yawn...maybe think about those links I'm sharing which back up what I'm trying to tell y'all.

I've read a couple of studies recently showcasing the fundamentally different way conservatives and liberals approach gender issues, with conservatives much more likely to take a male dominated (dare I say misogynistic) view of the world. Being aware of these differences doesn't render it identity politics though, does it? Sexual assault is an issue that is heavily under-reported, and the conviction rate is even lower, so when the cards are stacked so heavily against the victims of sexual assault, and then you have one of the leading judges in the United States potentially having gotten away with it as well, it doesn't exactly suggest to this outsider that victims of sexual assault, or maybe even other aspects that are distinctly female issues (with abortion being the obvious one) are going to get a fair hearing, or whether it will be a continuation of century upon century of men making decisions on their behalf.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[ilikecheese]

I've read a couple of studies recently showcasing the fundamentally different way conservatives and liberals approach gender issues, with conservatives much more likely to take a male dominated (dare I say misogynistic) view of the world. Being aware of these differences doesn't render it identity politics though, does it? Sexual assault is an issue that is heavily under-reported, and the conviction rate is even lower, so when the cards are stacked so heavily against the victims of sexual assault, and then you have one of the leading judges in the United States potentially having gotten away with it as well, it doesn't exactly suggest to this outsider that victims of sexual assault, or maybe even other aspects that are distinctly female issues (with abortion being the obvious one) are going to get a fair hearing, or whether it will be a continuation of century upon century of men making decisions on their behalf.

Conservatives have been playing identity politics since the beginning of time. They demonize anyone different. They invented the idea of identity politics to demonize liberals for supporting their opposing view.

I mean Holliday is happy to make a massive deal about Muslims this and Muslims that, but then rails against identity politics.

It's an absolute farce. No idea how people like him can't see the illogical nature of their conclusions.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Conservatives have been playing identity politics since the beginning of time. They demonize anyone different. They invented the idea of identity politics to demonize liberals for supporting their opposing view.

I mean Holliday is happy to make a massive deal about Muslims this and Muslims that, but then rails against identity politics.

It's an absolute farce. No idea how people like him can't see the illogical nature of their conclusions.

It's just a right/wrong thing rather than a right/left thing isn't it? To have one of the most senior judges in America with such a question mark against him, alongside a President with similar question marks against his own past, who has seen fit to demonise the accuser is hardly a supportive environment for women to feel empowered. Progress has been slow enough in that regard, and this seems a huge retrograde step. I'm not sure your political persuasion should matter in that respect, but as I said in my previous post, there does appear to be a distinction in how conservatives and liberals view women. It's one thing to have those views and have them isolated to yourself, but to have them instilled in official policy and legislation is something else entirely.

 

[dholliday]

I've read a couple of studies recently showcasing the fundamentally different way conservatives and liberals approach gender issues, with conservatives much more likely to take a male dominated (dare I say misogynistic) view of the world. Being aware of these differences doesn't render it identity politics though, does it? Sexual assault is an issue that is heavily under-reported, and the conviction rate is even lower, so when the cards are stacked so heavily against the victims of sexual assault, and then you have one of the leading judges in the United States potentially having gotten away with it as well, it doesn't exactly suggest to this outsider that victims of sexual assault, or maybe even other aspects that are distinctly female issues (with abortion being the obvious one) are going to get a fair hearing, or whether it will be a continuation of century upon century of men making decisions on their behalf.

Clearly we're all agreed that any victims of any crime (be it sexual assault or whatever else) should be society's priority in terms of protection and justice.

Abortion however is not so simple, as many women are pro-life. We can't (solely) blame conservative men for pro-life policies, neither is it a distinctly conservative issue. Many liberal-minded women who've been pregnant themselves also feel uneasy about the idea of legalised 'luxury' abortions (where the health of mother/child isn't at any risk).

Another issue with your logic is assuming conservatism is a male-dominated philosophy. It's not, as demonstrated by in the UK & Germany it being the conservative parties who've provided society with female leaders.

What you're demonstrating is faith in the very identity politics the rest of us are turning away from: this assumption that conservatives are misogynistic hence women should vote Leftwards. You're pigeon-holing.

People aren't like that.‎

 

[ToffeeDan]

And on that note I'd like to ask indulgence for going off topic for a moment to post a link to RAINNs donation page - whatever your politics the past couple of weeks have been very tough on a lot of sexual assault victims and RAINN have been experiencing huge call/text volume and am sure they would appreciate a helping hand.

https://donate.rainn.org/

It's too late for someone close to me.. but you can make a difference for other survivors whether here in the UK or elsewhere

 

[dholliday]

It's just a right/wrong thing rather than a right/left thing isn't it? To have one of the most senior judges in America with such a question mark against him, alongside a President with similar question marks against his own past, who has seen fit to demonise the accuser is hardly a supportive environment for women to feel empowered. Progress has been slow enough in that regard, and this seems a huge retrograde step. I'm not sure your political persuasion should matter in that respect

I also agree women should feel empowered to report any alleged crime against their person. I support both parties remaining by legal requirement anonymous until the case is done, as this mob-judging isn't helping anyone.

There's a reason why those 7 links from respected publications I shared earlier are railing against the identity-politics movement, and it has zero to do with wishing women have less empowerment. Quite the opposite, in fact.

as I said in my previous post, there does appear to be a distinction in how conservatives and liberals view women. It's one thing to have those views and have them isolated to yourself, but to have them instilled in official policy and legislation is something else entirely.

Which misogynistic views are the conservatives instilling in official policy & legislation? Aside from pro-life, which is a matter of debate as to whether stricter abortion laws are intrinsically misogynistic. What else?

Personally I support an individual woman's (and to an understandably-lesser extent their male partner's) right-to-choose. They should make their own informed moral choice.

As to whether pro-life is an intrinsic misogynistic policy, there is much room for debate there:

Debate Room: Can you be pro-life and a feminist?

Anti-abortion feminism

 

[dead_soft]

As to whether pro-life is an intrinsic misogynistic policy, there is much room for debate there:

Debate Room: Can you be pro-life and a feminist?

Anti-abortion feminism

There isn’t any real intellectual defence of anti-abortion feminism. It may call itself feminism but it doesn’t help women. That debate you linked to is mind bendingly poor

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I also agree women should feel empowered to report any alleged crime against their person. I support both parties remaining by legal requirement anonymous until the case is done, as this mob-judging isn't helping anyone.

There's a reason why those 7 links from respected publications I shared earlier are railing against the identity-politics movement, and it has zero to do with wishing women have less empowerment. Quite the opposite, in fact.




Which misogynistic views are the conservatives instilling in official policy & legislation? Aside from pro-life, which is a matter of debate as to whether stricter abortion laws are intrinsically misogynistic. What else?

Personally I support an individual woman's (and to an understandably-lesser extent their male partner's) right-to-choose. They should make their own informed moral choice.

As to whether pro-life is an intrinsic misogynistic policy, there is much room for debate there:

Debate Room: Can you be pro-life and a feminist?

Anti-abortion feminism

Do you think women are more or less likely to get a fair hearing on matters of sexual assault with the current administration? More or less inclined to speak up?

 

[abelard]

And actually I sleep just fine on that regard. If I had any notion that they had actually had got away with it, based on much of anything, I'd be very troubled by that. But the real reason I sleep ok with it, is that SCOTUS is not something I really think about in my day-to-day life, except in circumstances like these.

I would suggest that if you spend any significant part of your day to day life stressed over who sits on SCOTUS and what they may be doing...that's a good indication that you need to wonder what your Congress is doing with their time and your money. THEY need to be looking at laws and hashing things out that need to be clear. Being the paid Legislative branch - law makers and such. SCOTUS is not supposed to be the unelected law-making body of the US. The fact that we think of them of them as some sort of Left of Right wing extension of the party indicated that the Congress as a whole is miserably failing on their primary duty.

The Supreme Court is probably the most significant factor in the spiralling corruption and uselessness of the Congress, for which it is widely and rightly reviled.

Since it has gone Republican, the Court has consistently ruled in favour of unrestricted dark money, voter suppression, and gerrymandering in Congressional elections, resulting in a Congress that has never been so unrepresentative and unaccountable in the modern era.

The Court has been a driving force in the degredation of American politics, not least because, as you yourself admit, people like you don't pay attention.

And with Kavanaugh on board, the pace by which the rot sets in will only accelerate.

The whole point of his confirmation is to ensure that Republican veto power will prevail in maintaining a policy agenda that a susbtantial majority of voters oppose, against even decades of Democratic control of the legistlature and executive (which, Republicans recognise, is plausible in light of the Trump horror show).

This, more than anything else, is why he is unfit to serve.

 

[abelard]

the republicans are all like

All you're really demonstrating is that you're both more driven by your own identity politics, and less aware of it, than anyone else here.