peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
That is the saddest thing I've seen written here. The fact that you cannot believe that others, apart from yourself, have concerns or a willingness to care is truly why I hate all political parties..........
Goodnight....
General strike/protest
- Thread starter magicjuan
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That is the saddest thing I've seen written here. The fact that you cannot believe that others, apart from yourself, have concerns or a willingness to care is truly why I hate all political parties..........
Goodnight....
Clint Planet
Utter Cad.
. Without a shadow of a doubt.
The sad thing about all of this junior doctor thing is its so bloody pointless. The provision of healthcare in the western world faces some enormous challenges. Populations are getting older, which influences both the amount of treatment required and the means to pay for it, the world around healthcare is changing incredibly quickly and that's having a huge influence on our expectations regarding healthcare provision. The kind of service we receive in other fields are being demanded in healthcare. There's also huge technological change, from wearable health monitors to genomic data to the potential for personalised medicine (to name just a few). There's a huge challenge in integrating these technologies in such a vast system, especially if you want to overcome the Matthew Effect.
All of this is happening around a NHS that aims to the best of its ability to provide the same level of care to all patients at all times. We already have differences in treatment based upon ones location, with some hospitals exceptional and others less so. We already have differences in care due to the time of treatment (hence this botched attempt at 'seven day service').
And that's before we look at our own responsibilities. The tax payer has shown precious little willingness to pay extra for the NHS (and that's you yourself pay rather than fobbing it off onto some unnamed other). There's also the uncomfortable truth that the vast majority of NHS care is provided for conditions we impose upon ourselves by our own unhealthy lifestyles, whether that's through poor diet, lack of exercise, smoking or drinking, the number of admissions due to freak events are in the minority. Which begs the question should we not be doing a whole lot more to shift the NHS away from treating people when they're sick to keeping people healthy to begin with. A lot of the technologies mentioned above lead in that direction, whether it's allowing our doctor to monitor our diet/activity levels or even genetic screening for diseases, but it runs into the very real Matthew Effect of these things tending to benefit the willing rather than the unwilling, just as things like educational technology has thus far largely benefited those who already have (and therefore value) education rather than those that don't.
This daft spat with doctors solves absolutely none of this and is so utterly stupid it's scarcely believable. Shame on both the BMA and the government for letting such important things get so sidetracked by such trivial matters.
All of this is happening around a NHS that aims to the best of its ability to provide the same level of care to all patients at all times. We already have differences in treatment based upon ones location, with some hospitals exceptional and others less so. We already have differences in care due to the time of treatment (hence this botched attempt at 'seven day service').
And that's before we look at our own responsibilities. The tax payer has shown precious little willingness to pay extra for the NHS (and that's you yourself pay rather than fobbing it off onto some unnamed other). There's also the uncomfortable truth that the vast majority of NHS care is provided for conditions we impose upon ourselves by our own unhealthy lifestyles, whether that's through poor diet, lack of exercise, smoking or drinking, the number of admissions due to freak events are in the minority. Which begs the question should we not be doing a whole lot more to shift the NHS away from treating people when they're sick to keeping people healthy to begin with. A lot of the technologies mentioned above lead in that direction, whether it's allowing our doctor to monitor our diet/activity levels or even genetic screening for diseases, but it runs into the very real Matthew Effect of these things tending to benefit the willing rather than the unwilling, just as things like educational technology has thus far largely benefited those who already have (and therefore value) education rather than those that don't.
This daft spat with doctors solves absolutely none of this and is so utterly stupid it's scarcely believable. Shame on both the BMA and the government for letting such important things get so sidetracked by such trivial matters.
Elong
The fire rises
What do you suggest they do Pete? Just wait for it all to blow over?
This has gone on for as long as I remember. Government undervaluing essential services and at the same time emotionally blackmailing them about their responsibilities should they object.
Same bullying was used in the 80s about the already disgraceful pay and conditions for nurses.
The answer then as now is that if you really believe they shouldn't strike then agree pay and conditions that are as universally agreed and as fair as possible. And they need to reflect the nature and importance of what is being done, not your ability to prevent them acting on any disagreement. And crucially you build in incremental pay rises that makes their position as stable as possible.
I am presuming part of the reason the armed forces have signed off their right to strike was an incremental pay system. Which I think has now largely been scrapped for the first time. Getting this info second hand though so may not be accurate.
I think the idea that the responsibility people have to society provides an opportunity to exploit them was the earliest indication to me that certain mentalities may have updated in language over the centuries, but in mentality haven't shifted much from the notion of serfdom.
daylightrobber
Player Valuation: £15m
It's true though isn't it? You couldn't give 2 hoots that the poor, the vulnerable and the disable etc. are constantly targeted by our own government. (By their own admissio, not that it wasn't obvious enough already). But as soon as a profession exercises their legal right to withdraw labour, you are up in arms citing 'what if it's my family, what if it's yours?' It's hypocrisy of the highest order. You're simply scaremongering because you don't happen to agree with something.
Whistlin' Dixie
Player Valuation: £50m
Correct...SENIOR doctors.
Not kids fresh from graduation, shattered after working their third or fourth 15 hour shift on the bounce.
No, @peteblue , SENIOR doctors - Who, incidentally, the overwhelming majority with their junior counterparts/colleague's actions.
Don't portray them as not giving a flying one. God knows, one day you'll need one. Just think, if anything unfortunate happens to you (or me) on the day the juniors walk out, we'll be seen by some top jolly....Wouldn't that be a bonus?
FFS
Whistlin' Dixie
Player Valuation: £50m
Yeah - right outside a&e departments where they're picketing...Go on pete, tell us the doctors'd have to take some of the blame...You know you'd want to.
How is it blackmail? It's negotiating from strength admittedly but that's a basic right.
What is arguable is whether it's fair that your industrial or financial muscle provides you with greater negotiating power. I think the left and the unions should have been protecting those with essential jobs or jobs with less concerted power from the potential that governments such as this one will come in and try to pick off the easiest targets.
Seanjd
Player Valuation: £30m
http://www.theguardian.com/educatio...achers-backs-ballot-on-strike-action-brighton
'gon kick off this summer!
'gon kick off this summer!
dandydan
Player Valuation: £40m
I'm going to hold my nose and agree with you. No doctor is going to stand outside A&E waving a unison placard during a mass causualty event.
Clint Planet
Utter Cad.
I will most definitely be voting to strike. This is a MASSIVE deal and has to be resisted.
Whistlin' Dixie
Player Valuation: £50m
Well in!
Hunt & Morgan (Well, the tory party in general) remind me of the Ceausescus. Too arrogant & stupid to realise the consequences of what they're doing. I hope they share the same fate...Metaphorically speaking, of course
“At the end of the day, if this white paper goes through and becomes law, we will have no negotiation rights, we will have no national pay and conditions agreements"
From the Guardian article (attributed to a delegate at the event). Kind of worrying statement in that it's all about how academies will erode teacher power rather than any mention of students. At least the doctors are framing their own strike in terms of the impact it will have on patients.
From the Guardian article (attributed to a delegate at the event). Kind of worrying statement in that it's all about how academies will erode teacher power rather than any mention of students. At least the doctors are framing their own strike in terms of the impact it will have on patients.
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