General strike/protest

[Prevenger17]

No mate, you are. You will not answer a simple question. You are more concerned with the politics of doing down the Tories than the effects of Doctors walking out. You have tried to say that it won't cause any problems......even though plain common sense says otherwise......but you keep going on about food bins and the nasty Tories .....don't bother to open your mind to anything that perhaps doesn't play to your political agenda.........

Is your full stop button jammed?

 

[Old Blue 2]

Striking is a type of blackmail aswell though especially when it's us being put at risk

REALLY???

I was a civil servant in the 1970s when the Heath government simply binned pay agreements, imposed a pay freeze, and sat back as if nothing would then happen.

A strike is NOT a type of blackmail, it is mostly used as a method of trying to get the Management side to see common sense about issues that affect ordinary working people, and on most occasions, get them back to the negotiating table.

The fact of the matter is that the government can afford to give the EU millions per DAY, can afford to give many millions in foreign aid, are prepared to put BILLIONS into archaic submarine missile systems (that have never protected us for ONE SECOND!) to keep their chums at the top of the military happy, while screwing the NHS down all the time.

Wake up and smell the f*ckin' coffee...!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

, while screwing the NHS down all the time.

Ignoring the hyperbole for a minute, the NHS was one of few departments that had their budget protected, which inevitably meant that cuts to other departments had to be much deeper as they weren't spread evenly. Lets keep things in perspective.

The NHS is being squeezed because a lot more is being expected of it as much as because the budget hasn't been maintained.

 

[peteblue]

I will most definitely be voting to strike. This is a MASSIVE deal and has to be resisted.

I've read a little bit on this but not really enough to understand the real pro's and con's of the benefits in going to Academies. So I have no views either way.

However, my questions to the teaching profession would be "what do the parents want ?" and "are they supporting you?". I would think that without that support you will lose and with that support you must win. If it's just seen or viewed as the teachers being obstructive or self serving then you will lose, whether you are right or wrong. So if you want to win, rather than just announcing strikes, a more rounded and inclusive strategy may be needed.......

 

[peteblue]

Is your full stop button jammed?

Yes.......

 

[Old Blue 2]

Ignoring the hyperbole for a minute, the NHS was one of few departments that had their budget protected, which inevitably meant that cuts to other departments had to be much deeper as they weren't spread evenly. Lets keep things in perspective.

The NHS is being squeezed because a lot more is being expected of it as much as because the budget hasn't been maintained.

Not hyperbole, fact.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...and-budget-cuts-30-billion-pound-deficit-2020

Fact is, you can't get a quart into a pint pot, which is what this government drives towards, and then will say it doesn't work, and then will sell it off piecemeal to their high-roller chums. It's a proven ploy which has been used time and time again by them. The railway network, utilities...

Wakey, wakey...

 

[Seanjd]

I've read a little bit on this but not really enough to understand the real pro's and con's of the benefits in going to Academies. So I have no views either way.

However, my questions to the teaching profession would be "what do the parents want ?" and "are they supporting you?". I would think that without that support you will lose and with that support you must win. If it's just seen or viewed as the teachers being obstructive or self serving then you will lose, whether you are right or wrong. So if you want to win, rather than just announcing strikes, a more rounded and inclusive strategy may be needed.......

I'm sorry but, as long as this remains state education, parents are not customers. Teachers, however, are trained professionals and have better knowledge as to what will adversely affect children - so I would listen to them if I was you. Secondly, any policy which puts at risk the rights of its workers needs to be fought against.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not hyperbole, fact.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...and-budget-cuts-30-billion-pound-deficit-2020

Fact is, you can't get a quart into a pint pot, which is what this government drives towards, and then will say it doesn't work, and then will sell it off piecemeal to their high-roller chums. It's a proven ploy which has been used time and time again by them. The railway network, utilities...

Wakey, wakey...

That isn't what the article says. Have a look at the NHS Forward View, which is written by the chief executive of NHS England (Simon Stevens).

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/5yfv-web.pdf

It makes very clear that there are financial pressures on the NHS, but that is as much down to the increasing demands placed on it (much of which is down to our unhealthy lifestyles btw) as it is budgets being cut. Your last statement is nothing but supposition I'm afraid.

 

[Old Blue 2]

That isn't what the article says. Have a look at the NHS Forward View, which is written by the chief executive of NHS England (Simon Stevens).

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/5yfv-web.pdf

It makes very clear that there are financial pressures on the NHS, but that is as much down to the increasing demands placed on it (much of which is down to our unhealthy lifestyles btw) as it is budgets being cut. Your last statement is nothing but supposition I'm afraid.

No supposition at all Bruce.

Anyone in a Chief Exec's position is not going to denigrate Government officials or others at the 'Captains of Industry' level. We see that kind of buttering up every day in the national news. If you believe all that we are spoon-fed, well fine. I'm not cynical, just realistic.

Of course there are increasing pressures on the NHS, from a growing population, a population that lives longer, and the lifestyles of people. The telling phrase in the above quote of yours is 'budgets being cut'. Exactly! This Government sees fit to reduce the NHS budget IN REAL TERMS at a time when all the indicators show that there is a need for a continuing increase. Do you not think there is a strategy behind the 'cuts' agenda? Cameron and his publis school ilk are not interested in the ordinary working people of this country, as evidenced by Osborne's climb-down once the scale of opposition to his Dis Ben cuts was realised (Duncan-Smith...). The sooner the nation of Sun readers wake up to this the better (and in terms of the RS, I at least applaud their stance regarding that rag re the 96).

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That's a rather patronising perspective if you don't mind me saying so. The suggestion that those who think differently to yourself are only capable of reading something like the Sun doesn't reflect well on you.

Re your budget cut comment, I didn't say the budget has been cut, simply because it hasn't been. As the King's Fund rightly point out, the budget has risen in real terms (albeit by a small amount).

http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/project...pledge-increase-real-terms-spending-year-year

As I said quite clearly above, the pressure it is facing is due to the increased demand on the service, as the demand is no doubt rising faster than inflation. This was why I said previously that more is needed to stop people getting sick in the first place rather than merely responding when they are so. The bulk of NHS spending goes on treating long-term conditions, many of which are wholly preventable by healthier lifestyles. Get to the root of that and you have a chance of having a health system that doesn't collapse under its own weight. Carry on as it is and the NHS will collapse within my lifetime.

 

[Clint Planet]

“At the end of the day, if this white paper goes through and becomes law, we will have no negotiation rights, we will have no national pay and conditions agreements"

From the Guardian article (attributed to a delegate at the event). Kind of worrying statement in that it's all about how academies will erode teacher power rather than any mention of students. At least the doctors are framing their own strike in terms of the impact it will have on patients.

Yes , it's your modus operandi to try to spin it towards "self-serving oiks", Bruce. It's what you do - like some Tory version of a Putin troll. As if you or anyone else really believes that. I wouldn't trust you with a hot stove.

 

[Old Blue 2]

That's a rather patronising perspective if you don't mind me saying so. The suggestion that those who think differently to yourself are only capable of reading something like the Sun doesn't reflect well on you.

Re your budget cut comment, I didn't say the budget has been cut, simply because it hasn't been. As the King's Fund rightly point out, the budget has risen in real terms (albeit by a small amount).

http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/project...pledge-increase-real-terms-spending-year-year

As I said quite clearly above, the pressure it is facing is due to the increased demand on the service, as the demand is no doubt rising faster than inflation. This was why I said previously that more is needed to stop people getting sick in the first place rather than merely responding when they are so. The bulk of NHS spending goes on treating long-term conditions, many of which are wholly preventable by healthier lifestyles. Get to the root of that and you have a chance of having a health system that doesn't collapse under its own weight. Carry on as it is and the NHS will collapse within my lifetime.

Now don't take my comment out of context.

The reference to Sun readers is valid in that that particular medium has a particular sway on a certain part of the population. And I have to say that their reporting of Col. H Jones in the Falklands Campaign and The Hillsborough tragedy are but two examples of how that gutter rag published 100% false information.

I understand whay you are saying in your last paragraph, but I cannot wholly agree with it. Long-term conditions... Hmmm. I have a 'long term condition'. A heart attack in August 2001. Triple bypass in Papworth in March 2002. Four tablets a day since August 2001. Long term condition which drains, to whatever small degree, the resources of the NHS. No healthier lifestyle could have prevented my heart attack - it's hereditary. The Medics at the time said the only surprising thing was that I survived it. I'm still kicking around today, and have absolute faith in our NHS. I'm not so naive, however, to believe all is rosy in the garden. And also that people do not take advantage of it. But 'taking advantage' happens in all walks of life, and we just have to get over it and carry on.

With the best will in the world, you will never arrive at a point where everybody is following a healthy lifestyle. Just won't happen in the real world.

But I will say that this has been a good discussion between the two of us, and is thought-provoking.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Now don't take my comment out of context.

The reference to Sun readers is valid in that that particular medium has a particular sway on a certain part of the population. And I have to say that their reporting of Col. H Jones in the Falklands Campaign and The Hillsborough tragedy are but two examples of how that gutter rag published 100% false information.

I understand whay you are saying in your last paragraph, but I cannot wholly agree with it. Long-term conditions... Hmmm. I have a 'long term condition'. A heart attack in August 2001. Triple bypass in Papworth in March 2002. Four tablets a day since August 2001. Long term condition which drains, to whatever small degree, the resources of the NHS. No healthier lifestyle could have prevented my heart attack - it's hereditary. The Medics at the time said the only surprising thing was that I survived it. I'm still kicking around today, and have absolute faith in our NHS. I'm not so naive, however, to believe all is rosy in the garden. And also that people do not take advantage of it. But 'taking advantage' happens in all walks of life, and we just have to get over it and carry on.

With the best will in the world, you will never arrive at a point where everybody is following a healthy lifestyle. Just won't happen in the real world.

But I will say that this has been a good discussion between the two of us, and is thought-provoking.

No argument from me regarding the merits of the Sun. A horrible rag and no mistake. I'm also glad to hear you're doing well after your heart attack. Believe it or not, I very much want the best for the NHS as my other half works in it, and I've done a reasonable amount of work for it too. It faces some real challenges ahead, as indeed do health systems around the world. Hopefully it will figure out ways of meeting them.

 

[raithrovers94]

Never mix the club I love and politics

 

[peteblue]

I'm sorry but, as long as this remains state education, parents are not customers. Teachers, however, are trained professionals and have better knowledge as to what will adversely affect children - so I would listen to them if I was you. Secondly, any policy which puts at risk the rights of its workers needs to be fought against.

Wow. I can't believe you are a teacher. So you are happy to just ignore what parents want for their children and just say "we know best". Well good luck with that one.......

Meanwhile, I know Clint is a teacher, and one who works in difficult circumstances, so I'd rather see what he has to post if that's OK......