Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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We already exported more under WTO than we did to the EU. The USA always complained about the ’technical‘ requirements from the EU, but tbh if that’s the process then so be it. It’s the application of the process that seems to be causing friction here. As usual we tried to be accommodating and gave a six month easy access to the U.K. to help EU companies get used to the processes. The Eu of course slammed the door shut straight away, while the French in particular appear to be nit picking in the extreme regarding any issue on the paperwork, labelling etc. We will no doubt sort it out. It may also benefit those small companies that trade with the EU in that once they master the processes, they can then open up their businesses outside of Europe having gained experience of export process that they never had before. The Nissan CEO just shrugged it off as part of business, because they are big and experienced in this, the smaller businesses will learn and will benefit from it. France’s intransigence in this matter may well turn into an opportunity......
Big companies can probably absorb the costs involved. Small companies almost certainly can't. To reaffirm though, Brexit was something that was supposed to make things easier, and instead we're trying to pass off the fact that trading with Europe is now as difficult as trading on WTO terms as though it's some kind of advantage. That's quite incredible mental gymnastics.
 
No offence taken. Just sharing some insights from my line of work. We're facing a number of things that are almost certain. Firstly, we're living longer and so people entering the workforce today are almost certainly going to be working far longer than their parents. So the old "study>work>retire" model is quite probably not going to apply to them. I'm not even convinced it will apply to you and I, but lets be conservative and say our children. If people are working for 60 years with the pace that the world is moving today the idea that you'll do one thing for that entire time is highly unlikely.

This is especially so given the pace of technological change, which is likely to force change upon people even if they don't engage in it willingly. I'm generally not a subscriber to the "robots are taking our jobs" thing, but they are almost certainly going to change the jobs we do, and the things that we will need to be good at in order to stay in work.

There may be other macro trends but those are the two that we can talk about with a degree of certainty. Obviously, we can pretend these things aren't happening or we can adapt as individuals and as a society. As you say, education is the biggest area for change as university education is ruinously expensive if we need to engage with it more than once or twice in our lives. We've seen shorter micro-courses grow in popularity but transferrable credentials remain an area where the job market hasn't really caught up. Similarly, countries like South Korea have perhaps led the way in supporting lifelong learning, both in terms of providing financial support to people and with accrediting training they do do. It is likely to require state intervention of that nature as evidence from employers shows that they tend to recruit in the skills they need rather than develop their existing workforce.

With housing and to a large extent transportation, the days of owning these assets also seem to be ebbing away. I suspect as a Londoner you are already familiar with not owning a car and "renting" either an Uber style service or public transport. If we ever get to a point where driverless cars become a reality then the car ownership model will become even less feasible. I wouldn't be surprised if home ownership doesn't go the same way. Homeownership in Switzerland is about 40%. In Germany it's 50%. Egalitarian countries like Denmark and Sweden see around 60%. Are they somehow worse than Romania with 96%? Indeed, The Economist recently went as far as to say that promoting homeownership is the biggest policy mistake the West has ever made.


I don't think this has to guarantee the kind of dystopian future you describe, but it will require us as individuals and as society to tackle things head-on rather than pretend they don't exist.

There is a lot of sense there, but all I'd point out is that the government (and its predecessors) hasn't done much to soften the blow of change. If we are going to let it happen, then it has to - otherwise things will get worse than they are now.
 
Interesting article and reflection on another aspect of project fear, now reality. Real concerns the Union is disintegrating at great pace... The various committees being setup nationwide implies some real concern in Government and Westminster, not just Scotland as the link suggests, the sense of Britishness is evaporating, although myself, glad everyone is catching up to be honest.


Boris Johnson has a new five-step plan to stop Scottish independence | The National

Queenie not purring anymore me thinks...:)
 
Ok....

Well putting aside the mechanics, law, unions, payoffs, transfers, closure of a facility etc etc etc, there are the people. I have never made a person redundant who deserved it because of their own performance. It’s always been because of the incompetence of those they worked for.

The first time I had to close a plant down I was still in my twenties. I had lots of HR people advising and so on, but having to let hundreds go and relocate hundreds of others, I took the decision to speak to the whole plant as a group and then individually with every single person over the next four or five days. I could have delegated this to the line management and perhaps should have, but I’m glad I did it as it gave me an insight that many never see.

Now remember all of these people were good people, the vast majority highly qualified and experienced engineers. But every one of them sat in front of me to either be given the news that we were letting them go or were being retained and relocated elsewhere, if they wished.

Now put yourself in my position and imagine looking into the eyes of these men and women, most with families and mortgages and telling them you were letting them go. Each and every one of them having different issues and taking it in differing ways. Some very bullish and had jobs lined up, some desperate for work and in tears. That Is complex, and as you are lucky that you have never had to do it, don’t have a go at those who had to, just count your lucky stars.....
Say that to my bro who was made redundant at 29 with his life ahead of him...he comitted suicide as a result of a company who didn't give a [Poor language removed] about him..
You never gave a [Poor language removed] about the people you were sacking..
i have dealt with the fall out from your selfish attitude you are welcome to your retirement with your offshore ill gotten gains.
I have looked into the eyes of people who suffered from you and your company [Poor language removed]..
Rot in hell mate
I don’t tend to share any views with Pete, and I experienced redundancy at 20. Previously I’d seen both of my grandads and my dad made redundant.

I actually thought Pete puts his side across well. Your brother clearly didn’t deserve that, nor does anyone but I don’t think Pete deserved this response.
 
This quote from a business owner is just bonkers and proves how much self harm has taken place. Once the people who drove this have made their money from it, they'll no doubt try and reverse it to make more.

The firm, which had been optimistic about Brexit, is now looking at setting up a hub in France where it would "test the water".

But it has also scrapped plans to build a new £1m warehouse in Macclesfield employing 20-30 people.

"Instead we might end up employing French workers and paying tax to the EU," Mr Spurrell said.
"I left the EU as a UK citizen but now they are suggesting I rejoin my company to the EU, so what was Brexit for?"
 
Interesting article and reflection on another aspect of project fear, now reality. Real concerns the Union is disintegrating at great pace... The various committees being setup nationwide implies some real concern in Government and Westminster, not just Scotland as the link suggests, the sense of Britishness is evaporating, although myself, glad everyone is catching up to be honest.


Boris Johnson has a new five-step plan to stop Scottish independence | The National

Queenie not purring anymore me thinks...:)

The UK is brown bread, NI to go first and once that happens Scotland will be shortly after.
 
Interesting article and reflection on another aspect of project fear, now reality. Real concerns the Union is disintegrating at great pace... The various committees being setup nationwide implies some real concern in Government and Westminster, not just Scotland as the link suggests, the sense of Britishness is evaporating, although myself, glad everyone is catching up to be honest.


Boris Johnson has a new five-step plan to stop Scottish independence | The National

Queenie not purring anymore me thinks...:)
A Scottish independence manifesto based on the below would make it interesting !

Reclaim Sovereignty
Control of borders
Removal of unelected lawmakers
Accountability on expenditure
Ability to make own trade deals (with EU)
 
This quote from a business owner is just bonkers and proves how much self harm has taken place. Once the people who drove this have made their money from it, they'll no doubt try and reverse it to make more.

The firm, which had been optimistic about Brexit, is now looking at setting up a hub in France where it would "test the water".

But it has also scrapped plans to build a new £1m warehouse in Macclesfield employing 20-30 people.

"Instead we might end up employing French workers and paying tax to the EU," Mr Spurrell said.
"I left the EU as a UK citizen but now they are suggesting I rejoin my company to the EU, so what was Brexit for?"
Brexit was purely about not being in the EU for the Tories. That’s it.

Outcomes and consequences are irrelevant.

Dressed up as union jack sovereignty and control of borders, so as to fool those daft enough to believe it had anything to do with making life better for the majority.
 
A Scottish independence manifesto based on the below would make it interesting !

Reclaim Sovereignty
Control of borders
Removal of unelected lawmakers
Accountability on expenditure
Ability to make own trade deals (with EU)

Add...
Get rid of the Barnett formula, get our free money from the EU
Close the border with England
Who needs the 60% of exports going to UK
Removal of Scots being U.K. Prime Ministers and Chancellors of the Exchequer
Return the fish to EU
Who do we blame now......
 
Brexit was purely about not being in the EU for the Tories. That’s it.

Outcomes and consequences are irrelevant.

Dressed up as union jack sovereignty and control of borders, so as to fool those daft enough to believe it had anything to do with making life better for the majority.

Some of them for sure, the ones that sold it to the public stood to benefit financially.
 
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