Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Barnfred 55]

I work extensively with the EU and they're far from perfect, and frankly, the request that the UK abide by EU standards in perpetuity (with obviously no say in those standards) is a crazy idea that they must surely have known could never be accepted. There are also the obvious issues around Hungary and Poland, and the horrendous camps in Greece that are out of sight, out of mind.

So I'm not blind to their faults, but still think they are trying to do the right thing, and the world would be generally better off if it was more EU than less.

I don't often like your posts in this thread Bruce as you know. But that was probably the most balanced post I've seen in here in weeks

 

[spectateur]

"Norway Plus"
My arse

Very true,. More like Norwegian Blue.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Can we just jib this off now?

Surely anyone with even half a brain can't possibly deny at this point that it was a terrible, unworkable idea that's been executed even worse?

 

[Jebus_lives]

Isn't the Symbolic bit the root cause of the problem though and that this is what has motivated people to be so passionate about a debate that should be entirely rational ? The UK argument starts from this perspective rather than from a pragmatic assessment of commercial reality, based on what is best for jobs, people, economy and the rest. Union Jack, Haddock and Rule Britannia trumps everything. UK ministers state that we can't be tied to EU rules on matters such as employment law, that we must have "sovereignty" followed by real statements such as "the UK believes in flexible labour markets", do we really ? Zero hours is what we really want ? It's the only interpretation I can make of the statements because Johnson and Co aren't embarking on this exercise to improve employment laws. The whole Brexit argument is underpinned by nationalistic symbolism but the actual objectives appear much darker.

Very good blog post from David Allan Green this morning on 'Sovereignty'. It's not about feelings.

Sovereignty and ‘Sovereignty!’

11th December 2020 One feature of contemporary politics in both the United Kingdom and United States is the way descriptive words and phrases have become slogans with a very different meaning. This…

davidallengreen.com

 

[Jebus_lives]

Im afraid it does Bruce. You may not like it... but it does.

A citizen of the UK gets to vote on policies in the UK, foreign nationals living here do not.

I got to vote on whether I wanted mass uncontrolled immigration into continue and I voted No.

Thats the harsh truth

Always comes back to immigration or Nationalism...why do any of you even bother trying to pretend otherwise.

 

[Barnfred 55]

That was one stupid move by johnson, and you know my views on brexit.
Unfortunately instead of just sitting down and getting a trade deal that benefits both parties, both sides have backed themselves into a corner with there so called red lines.
Fishing they should have had a gradual deal on quotas, it's only fair if people have invested in boats and buying fish quotas they shouldn't have the rugged pulled from under them, but like ever other coastal country we have the right to control are waters, this doesn't have to be all or nothing situation , surly an acceptable solution isnt that hard to find.
On level playing field , goods into and out of the EU , fine no problem with that ,but outside of that no country should or would accept an outside entity controlling its laws, pretty much make Brexit not worth the bother may as well stay in and make the rules from that end, think the EU have over reached themselves with that one.
Unfortunately the time has been wasted on both sides us by having May in there half hearted from the start, everything she has done since tells you she had the soundbites but not the will to do what she was saying, and the EU leaving Barnier in charge and allowing Macaron to put his oar in , with last minute demands that are just a play on his part in an election year.
It's unfortunate that both sides of the table have been shown as not really up to the job.
Looks like it's no deal as it stands.

Great post mate

 

[spectateur]

No, it really doesn't, not least over the lives of people who have no vote themselves. What an abominable suggestion. They're human beings, not your pet.

Thanks for the mention. Many people will not be aware that many UK nationals now, since January and due to brexit, fall into that category.
I can not vote in elections, either in France where I live or in the UK where I was born.

 

[Amw79]

Can we just jib this off now?

Surely anyone with even half a brain can't possibly deny at this point that it was a terrible, unworkable idea that's been executed even worse?

Nah mate. This is exactly what leavers voted for. Perfectly smooth transition to a brighter future. You can just smell the sovereignty.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

 

[Prevenger17]

“Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market”. Daniel Hannan, 12/5/15.

“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want”. Michael Gove, 9/4/16.

“British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; and buy homes and settle down. There will continue to be free trade and access to the single market”. Boris Johnson, 26/6/16.

“Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards”. John Redwood, 17/7/16.

“There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside”. David Davis, 10/10/16.

“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history”. Liam Fox, 20/7/17.

“Most of the EU states are very sympathetic to our view”. David Davis, 15/5/17.

“I believe that we can get a free trade and customs agreement concluded before March 2019”. David Davis, 18/1/17.

“Within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU … The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit, but they will be fully negotiated”. David Davis, 14/7/16.

“There is no plan for no deal, because we’re going to get a great deal”. Boris Johnson, 11/7/17.

“But we didn’t vote to leave without a deal. That wasn’t the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey. Leaving without a deal on March 29 would not honour that commitment. It would undoubtedly cause economic turbulence.” Michael Gove, 3/3/19.

“I’ve looked carefully at ‘no deal’. That outcome would be a failure of statecraft”, Boris Johnson, 9/9/19.

"I can indeed assure the hon. Lady that there will be no crashing out, because we will negotiate a great new friendship and partnership within the timescale. I know that hon. Members on both sides of the House have every confidence in the Government to do that. " Boris Johnson, 22/10/19.

“We have an ‘oven ready’ deal, let's put it in the microwave, as soon as we get back after the election on 12 December." Boris Johnson, 31/10/19.

“Our deal is the only one on the table. It is signed, sealed and ready. It puts the whole country on a path to a new free trade agreement with the EU. This will be a new relationship based on free trade and friendly cooperation” Conservative Party Manifesto, 24/11/19.

 

[Moomin]

“Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market”. Daniel Hannan, 12/5/15.

“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want”. Michael Gove, 9/4/16.

“British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; and buy homes and settle down. There will continue to be free trade and access to the single market”. Boris Johnson, 26/6/16.

“Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards”. John Redwood, 17/7/16.

“There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside”. David Davis, 10/10/16.

“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history”. Liam Fox, 20/7/17.

“Most of the EU states are very sympathetic to our view”. David Davis, 15/5/17.

“I believe that we can get a free trade and customs agreement concluded before March 2019”. David Davis, 18/1/17.

“Within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU … The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit, but they will be fully negotiated”. David Davis, 14/7/16.

“There is no plan for no deal, because we’re going to get a great deal”. Boris Johnson, 11/7/17.

“But we didn’t vote to leave without a deal. That wasn’t the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey. Leaving without a deal on March 29 would not honour that commitment. It would undoubtedly cause economic turbulence.” Michael Gove, 3/3/19.

“I’ve looked carefully at ‘no deal’. That outcome would be a failure of statecraft”, Boris Johnson, 9/9/19.

"I can indeed assure the hon. Lady that there will be no crashing out, because we will negotiate a great new friendship and partnership within the timescale. I know that hon. Members on both sides of the House have every confidence in the Government to do that. " Boris Johnson, 22/10/19.

“We have an ‘oven ready’ deal, let's put it in the microwave, as soon as we get back after the election on 12 December." Boris Johnson, 31/10/19.

“Our deal is the only one on the table. It is signed, sealed and ready. It puts the whole country on a path to a new free trade agreement with the EU. This will be a new relationship based on free trade and friendly cooperation” Conservative Party Manifesto, 24/11/19.

But @arminisgod said the people voted for no deal...... right after he waved a bacon butty at a mosque.

 

[Cool_Blue]

When the Spanish police were beating people throughout Catalonia on the government's orders, the EU should - imo - be insisting to Spain that if that happened, there would be consequences. Trade tariffs, etc. That surely is something to be upheld? It's not big brother - it's just saying you can't treat your people like that and be part of the club.

Slightly off topic, but what the hell happened to that Carlos bloke who legged it to Belgium was it? Did he get extradited?

 

[tsubaki]

Slightly off topic, but what the hell happened to that Carlos bloke who legged it to Belgium was it? Did he get extradited?

yes and he should have been

 

[Blues Harp]

Yes I didn't have a vote on that.

Im sorry if people are offended and I know Bruce is married to an EU citizen but that is the harsh reality.

It's your reality lad.... No one else's. Appalling attitude you have.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Putting his time and learning as Foreign Secretary to good use.