Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Barnfred 55]

So can any of you EU lovebirds actually answer this question......

Bloody hell Pete. I've only opted out of here for a few weeks and you've already started talking to yourself lol

 

[random]

Hang on, you're a Brexit voter who is old?

yeah mid 50’s (if you class that as old obv)

 

[Jebus_lives]

Bloody hell Pete. I've only opted out of here for a few weeks and you've already started talking to yourself lol

He's the only person who is impressed by and listens to his boasting. It makes sense to talk to himself.

 

[Barnfred 55]

He's the only person who is impressed by and listens to his boasting. It makes sense to talk to himself.

I would also hazard a guess he's the only person in here who agrees with himself too.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I would also hazard a guess he's the only person in here who agrees with himself too.

I agree with myself

 

[Bruce Wayne]

yeah mid 50’s (if you class that as old obv)

Old enough to live vicariously through the war I'd say.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Old enough to live vicariously through the war I'd say.

Hundred days or 1st Boer?

 

[random]

Hundred days or 1st Boer?

The very uncivil one

 

[Jebus_lives]

The very uncivil one

British deaths, delivered by Brits to Brits. As British War for the British people.

(A course of action that established the principle of Parliamentary Sovereignty in the UK, which has been slowly eroded in pursuit of "reclaiming sovereignty in the UK").

 

[random]

Well yes, but saying 'Sovereignty' and citing legal cases about the nature of sovereignty normally implies that you understand the difference in how sovereignty can be gained or ceeded in law. I've talked about it before in this thread and it's largely been ignored, but it's not as simple as 'i lose my power' when talking about sovereignty and supranational institutions because as part of that institution we also gain sovereignty over the laws of other member states through our influence in the various governance mechanisms of the EU.

Please elaborate. I doubt people have ignored what you talked about before, probably just overlooked it due to some of the noise that appears in here.

The part in bold that drew my attention for sure, so in giving up some self determining power (for want of a better description), then we in turn gain that power elsewhere over other nation states ? Do I have that right ?

 

[Jebus_lives]

Please elaborate. I doubt people have ignored what you talked about before, probably just overlooked it due to some of the noise that appears in here.

The part in bold that drew my attention for sure, so in giving up some self determining power (for want of a better description), then we in turn gain that power elsewhere over other nation states ? Do I have that right ?

It's an odd debate if you apply sovereignty to the decision to Leave. In essence, you split the concept into two domains de jure and de facto.

You can knowingly reduce your de facto autonomy if you willingly enter into beneficial arrangements that supersede de jure sovereignty. There's nothing adverse about that, it's a decision taken in best interests, which effectively become a cooperate accord.

While you can say with certainty that the EU does have an input into UK laws and legislation and you may be right in asserting that EU regulation is excessive, undermining the de jure sovereignty of the UK, the fact that we are in a collective Union and able to influence decisions and legislation on a wider platform than our own state, we've actually increased our de facto sovereignty. You also can't argue that we weren't involved in the shaping of those regulations.

However, under May's deal we effectively reduce our sovereignty in both de facto and de jure basis.

Basically that. Nothing different about Johnson's deal to Mays other than PR, so that point effectively still applies as well

 

[random]

simplify it for me.

Are you saying we actually increase our powers by entering into an arrangement whereby we allow others to influence our laws but in turn we influence theirs ?

 

[peteblue]

Bloody hell Pete. I've only opted out of here for a few weeks and you've already started talking to yourself lol

It makes for a more intelligent conversation. Just look at the guff you see in here. Did you also note that having repeated the question, not one single EU supporter actually answered it......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It makes for a more intelligent conversation. Just look at the guff you see in here. Did you also note that having repeated the question, not one single EU supporter actually answered it......

I answered it with a link to full details about every project funded in Luxembourg, so you have the power to answer it yourself. Of course, you don't really want to answer it, as that would require doing some work to question your assumptions.

 

[roydo]

It makes for a more intelligent conversation. Just look at the guff you see in here. Did you also note that having repeated the question, not one single EU supporter actually answered it......

This what I dont think leavers get about many remainers; I dont support the EU, and I think a lot of the grief they get is valid. The accounts for one.

But on balance, the arrangement we have, or had, within the EU was mutually a good one. On balance. Not perfect, but what is?

Why I voted to remain was pretty much cos of that, plus, I didnt buy the codswallop that was spouted by some pretty awful people.