Current Affairs EU In or Out

[OnlyBlueWillDo]

He is a total WUM.

His user name tells you that

That is why I refer to @Hawhaw as Mr. Joyce, the biggest WUM in history.

And I only respond to him with ridicule.....which ranks just above ignore as the thing which WUMs get most wound up over

Why are people WUM's if they just have a different opinion from you?, he's entitled to express his views.

I'll tell you one thing that is very clear in here, the remainers are the angry hostile mob jumping on anyone who wants brexit.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce. That's a fine Utopian view to hold and I commend you for it. But you know as well as i do that it will never become a reality in our lifetime, well mine anyway. But to take the view that anybody who doesn't agree with your Utopian view of the world is a racist is just wrong, and actually belittles the term.

It upset me deeply when you referred to me as a racist a while ago because I have a completely different concept of the term than you do.

It's not just a moral case, it's an economic one too. The figures vary, but what they have in common is that they're bloody huge

A world of free movement would be $78 trillion richer

Yes, it would be disruptive. But the potential gains are so vast that objectors could be bribed to let it happen

www.economist.com

The EU has shown the way, both in terms of such freedom being possible, and hugely beneficial. We should be looking to go further, not retreating into nationalism. I'm happy to use other phrases, but 'managed migration' is essentially saying that we regard foreigners as lesser than natives. I'm not sure how that can ever be right, however it's dressed up.

 

[Paul Rideout]

Bruce. That's a fine Utopian view to hold and I commend you for it. But you know as well as i do that it will never become a reality in our lifetime, well mine anyway. But to take the view that anybody who doesn't agree with your Utopian view of the world is a racist is just wrong, and actually belittles the term.

It upset me deeply when you referred to me as a racist a while ago because I have a completely different concept of the term than you do.

Unfortunately the world couldn’t function that way. There’s something in economics called oca (optimal currency area) theory which sets parameters which the world would hve to adhere to. It’s also why the EU currently doesn

What moniker would you prefer to be given to discriminatory views? I'm happy to be flexible.

You can discriminate a person on metrics other than race. skill set, education etc etc.

Treating everyone who doesn’t have a legal right to remain in the UK&NI under international (not Eu) law the same is the antithesis of racism.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The Equality Act would be for people already here would it not, what is wrong with us employing the same system as Australia does when deciding who lives in this country, we can't have an open door, we've just had 10 years of savage Tory cuts, we have to start managing our population when it comes to immigration.

I don't care where you come from, if you have skills and attributes that are in short supply in this country then you should be fast tracked into living and working here and should take precedence.

What's wrong with it? We have a better system already, and yes, we can have an open door. You can see the absurdity of your argument by looking at the Irish border situation. Absolutely nothing is changing in the people or businesses operating in Northern Ireland and the Republic, but because of arbitrary rules on nationhood, all manner of issues are being stirred back up again.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

You might not like to hear it, but Irish English Welsh Scottish are all the same people. Most of Scousers have Irish blood, and Dublin was built by the English.


Ulster is as British as Essex.

Sammy Wilson DUP made a great point, here


We must stop the EU from annexing our country.

Where to start here! Putting aside our scouse Irish lineage, is your lineage a direct descendancy from Dicky P? He had no idea either...

 

[Paul Rideout]

It's not just a moral case, it's an economic one too. The figures vary, but what they have in common is that they're bloody huge

A world of free movement would be $78 trillion richer

Yes, it would be disruptive. But the potential gains are so vast that objectors could be bribed to let it happen

www.economist.com

The EU has shown the way, both in terms of such freedom being possible, and hugely beneficial. We should be looking to go further, not retreating into nationalism. I'm happy to use other phrases, but 'managed migration' is essentially saying that we regard foreigners as lesser than natives. I'm not sure how that can ever be right, however it's dressed up.

you quote the economist as if it’s some balanced publication. I read that for years, it was part of my job. It’s owned by the Angelini family. I can tell you they have a globalist outlook leaning towards our political centre right (the us Democratic Party).

Aside from the Agnelli family, smaller shareholders in the company include Cadbury, Rothschild(21%), Schroder, Layton and other family interests as well as a number of staff and former staff shareholders.[2][3]

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You can discriminate a person on metrics other than race. skill set, education etc etc.

Treating everyone who doesn’t have a legal right to remain in the UK&NI under international (not Eu) law the same is the antithesis of racism.

but you're not discriminating on skills and education, because you're already treating them differently to a British person. I'm British, my wife is Czech, why should she be treated differently to me?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

"Corbyn is a well known Eurosceptic, who voted against membership in 1975, voted against the Maastricht Treaty in 1993, and voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2009.
Given his views he has made a number

I don't believe you understand the meaning Eurosceptic it's a very wide generalised term and as always in politics, better to see Eurosceptic as a spectrum, from someone to who wants to reform to someone who wants leave the EU, and everything in-between.
Corbyn voting record clearly shows he is reformer.

 

[Anders_Limpar]

I knew and I still voted to leave. I did a lot of reading, including sensible articles about leaving without a deal. I think you do Brixiteers a disservice by assuming they were all, and are, ignorant racists. I, for one, am neither ignorant nor racist.

Could point me to an article written pre referendum about no deal?

I would love to read it. Be really interesting to see what people said of it back then.

 

[Paul Rideout]

lol but you're not discriminating on skills and education, because you're already treating them differently to a British person. I'm British, my wife is Czech, why should she be treated differently to me?

Your ethos is a noble one. Tbh I’d be all for it if it was viable, which it isn’t (sadly). Where do you draw the line?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

you quote the economist as if it’s some balanced publication. I read that for years, it was part of my job. It’s owned by the Angelini family. I can tell you they have a globalist outlook leaning towards our political centre right (the us Democratic Party).

They report on research. You can quote the New Statesman if you prefer - https://www.newstatesman.com/2017/08/economic-and-moral-case-global-open-borders or the University of London - https://theconversation.com/the-us-100-trillion-case-for-open-borders-72595 or JStor - https://daily.jstor.org/case-open-borders/. George Mason's Bryan Caplan has even written a book on it this year

Amazon product ASIN 1250316979

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Your ethos is a noble one. Tbh I’d be all for it if it was viable, which it isn’t (sadly). Where do you draw the line?

No line. Open borders.

 

[Paul Rideout]

No line. Open borders.

How do you deal with population density, optimal currency area issues, bankruptcy of countries who have working populations who migrate to here?

FYI the main reason I voted to leave is that the Eu isn’t congruent in its decision making (fiscal vs sociopolitical) between countries, plus the enforcement of northern European economic policy on Southern European policy leads to issues and mass migration to the places where said economic policy is in place.

 

[Anders_Limpar]

Completely untrue.

The ballot didn't have any list of conditions , it was remain or leave.

Therefore no matter what deal, it lack thereof , the result is leave the EU. There was no conditional vote, it was leave with no other context.

The reason why we haven't left yet is 100% MPs who actually don't want to leave the EU themselves (not did the politicians who gave us the vote ) . The reason why this is dragging on and on, the reason why they can't agree on a deal amongst themselves , they don't want to leave in the first place.

After the referendum, this has nothing to do with the public. We have had no part in it since that date , we chose an option and it's the mps fault as to why it hasn't happened.

Tell that to the 70 or so uber-brexiters of the ERG who blocked Mays deal 3 times. If they'd have voted it through we'd be out by now.

 

[Paul Rideout]

You might not like to hear it, but Irish English Welsh Scottish are all the same people. Most of Scousers have Irish blood, and Dublin was built by the English.


Ulster is as British as Essex.

Sammy Wilson DUP made a great point, here


We must stop the EU from annexing our country.

Dublin was built by the vikings as a slave port