Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Sorry I thought that was pretty clear. The post I linked referred to an article in the Belfast Telegraph dated 24 Feb 17. I found it with a simple google search on referendum campaign spending.
Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
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Your the one who can't add up Remain all round spent more on the referendum- fact the ones you like ignoring .....that's why I don't like this thread - half time in a important football game do you ever watch football?
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Well can I just say that you need to put more of a an effort into making your posts more concise. Because I seem to be getting the wrong message from nearly all of them. One could almost think that you were being intentionally vague
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Just want to make sure I'm absolutely clear.
Or you're being obtuse.Well can I just say that you need to put more of a an effort into making your posts more concise. Because I seem to be getting the wrong message from nearly all of them. One could almost think that you were being intentionally vague
Us millennials manage to watch things and read at the same time.
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Well I did vote to leave so that's exactly what you would expect.
ScoobyBlue
Player Valuation: £500k
Its almost three years ago. A new referendum to decide what actually? How we exit or if we exit. Most supporters of a "peoples vote" actually believe that this vote, if it happened, is a second referendum and decides, for a second time, if we exit or not.
Just like the Irish in 2008, what the remainers are saying is you, meaning Brexit voters, were too stupid, misinformed or just don’t understand politics enough to know what you were voting for, so go and have another go so you can get it right!
When the referendum was set up, there was no mechanism in there for a second vote on how we exit, if the exit vote won. It was never discussed, proposed or advocated. The parameters were clear; If the stay vote was first passed the post we stay in. If the leave vote was first passed the post we exit. END!
What the "peoples vote" campaign wants to do is change the terms of the vote, after the fact, and make it a provisional vote.
You voted for, or you didn't vote for, your present constituency MP in the last General Election. That person is supposed to represent all of the people in that constituency, not just the people who voted for him/her or their party and its policies. Trouble is, many MP's are not representing their constituents, they are representing themselves, voting with personal preference and opinion on if we stay or leave.
Many people when they vote, vote for a party leader because they like Him or Her and don't even know what policies their party proposes or advocates. Does that make them wrong if the election result goes their way?
Campaigner: “You what! You voted for Thatcher, you know that was wrong don’t you. Don’t worry, were starting a campaign to have a peoples vote to put this right. You’ll be able to vote again and this time remember to vote labour, doesn’t matter about their leader or their policies, just get it right”.
Voter: “But I like Maggie Thatcher, she seems like a nice lady and I’ll get more shopping for my money, she says”.
Campaigner: Look, when there’s a vote and it doesn’t go our way, we protest and demand change because it’s our democratic right, right”?
Voter: But we had a democratic vote, I voted and she won!
Campaigner: Yes, we know that but it was the wrong democratic vote, it wasn’t the democratic vote we expected. We expected a democratic vote in our favour and it didn’t happen, so we must vote again, and again, if necessary until we get the right democratic vote.
Voter: But I protest at what you’re doing. It’s my democratic right.
Campaigner: You can’t protest, you're vote was wrong, you for the wrong side. Only we have a democratic right to protest and change the result because the vote never went our way. If the vote had gone our way, you would just have to suck it up and accept it because it was the right vote.
That being the case, when the leader of a party changes, mid term, we should have another general election, based on your premise. I didn't vote for that party leader, I don't like Him/Her, I want a peoples vote on this new leader or another general election. It doesn’t happen!
Similarly, when a sitting MP crosses the floor, or announces their decision to quit their party to sit as an independent, based on your premise, there should be a bye-election.It doesn’t happen! The only time we have a bye-election is when the sitting MP, dies, quits altogether, jailed, becomes a Lord/Lady or is expelled by their party.
scratchnsurf
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Sorry mate - what exactly is 'my premise' that you keep referring to?
The point I was making is that general elections and the referendum aren't really comparable. You seem to then have included a lot of examples based on electing MP's - the exact thing I was saying isn't really comparable. I then asked for an explanation of how it is 'undemocratic' to ask people their views on what is going to happen?
ScoobyBlue
Player Valuation: £500k
You offered your opinion on how things should proceed in your view. A "pragmatic or preferred" option.
Where does it state that a GE is binding but a Referendum is not. Where does it state that a Referendum or THE Referendum regarding Brexit, is opinion and only advisory.
I didn't see any notification, documentation, campaign paraphernalia, tv footage or newsreel stating that the Referendum vote would be an assessment of eligible voters opinion and would only be advisory information on how we feel as a nation and if we should have another vote to leave the EU.
DO YOU JUST MAKE THIS CRAP UP AS YOU GO ALONG TO FIT IN WITH YOUR PERSONAL OPINION!
I shared the definition of Referendum with you in my previous reply. Nowhere in the definition does it say that a Referendum is a tool only to be used to gauge public opinion and as an advisory tool on peoples feelings. It is a tool to VOTE on a single political question, put to the people for a direct DECISION!
To address your last point, how was the referendum electoral fraud? If you mean the campaign prior to the vote then you have to look at both sides. Both sides made claims that couldn't stand up. The electorate have a brain, have eyes and can do their own research. If they chose to believe claims made by either side that is their decision and theirs alone. If they choose to take information on face value rather than conduct research, again that is their decision.
In a GE when a party wins but doesn't follow through with items in their manifesto that got them elected in the first place, is that electoral fraud? No, its not because they cite other issues to offset their failure to deliver. They make spending claims then after they are elected claim they don't have the money, or will have to raise taxes to get the money. If they said that during a GE campaign and put it in their manifesto, they wouldn't get elected. They tell lies, it gets them elected, they then make excuses.
If that's electoral fraud then every general election going back hundreds of years is fraudulent and we could go back to a Monarchy or go forward with a dictatorship (your pragmatic option) such as in Zimbabwe under Mugabe or presently, Venezuela under Maduro. Or possibly a communist ideology (your preferred option) such as North Korea or Cuba.
It's not comparable as it was annoyed as a one in a lifetime decision...
scratchnsurf
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Intervention from the autocorrect there Joey. It certainly has been a once in a life time annoyance.
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Usually yes.
ScoobyBlue
Player Valuation: £500k
The people were asked to make a decisive decision, they were not asked for their view.
There were two options: Stay in the EU or Leave the EU. There was no third option, no plan for a second vote. It was IN or OUT.
Where did you see on the ballot paper where it said this is a non decisive vote and you are only voting to guage public opinion. You will be offered another chance to vote on the terms of our Brexit deal should the no vote win. You didn't because it wasn't there.
How are we, the electorate, qualified to vote on provisions and policy related to exiting the EU. We are not, that's why we have MP's, who we consider when we elect them, are qualified to make those decisions on our behalf. That's democracy in a nutshell, we elect representatives to make decisions on our behalf. And that is why the two, the Referendum and the election of MP's are intrinsically linked.
I don't think you fully understand the "peoples vote" campaign. Their campaign, is to delay and delay Brexit until either a General election is called or another referendum is held. Their campaign is to change the vote, even if they don't say that openly, although some of them actually do.
What happens if we have another GE based on the Brexit fiasco and the party elected want to proceed with Brexit without having a peoples vote. Is that the end of it or does another campaign start.
What happens if we have another Referendum on in or out and the remainers prevail. Is that the end of it. We have the right vote so now its over.
It's been 3 years in June, since the vote How many years will the decision be delayed until we get the right vote. A democratic decision was made and we should honour it and move forward.
There were two options: Stay in the EU or Leave the EU. There was no third option, no plan for a second vote. It was IN or OUT.
Where did you see on the ballot paper where it said this is a non decisive vote and you are only voting to guage public opinion. You will be offered another chance to vote on the terms of our Brexit deal should the no vote win. You didn't because it wasn't there.
How are we, the electorate, qualified to vote on provisions and policy related to exiting the EU. We are not, that's why we have MP's, who we consider when we elect them, are qualified to make those decisions on our behalf. That's democracy in a nutshell, we elect representatives to make decisions on our behalf. And that is why the two, the Referendum and the election of MP's are intrinsically linked.
I don't think you fully understand the "peoples vote" campaign. Their campaign, is to delay and delay Brexit until either a General election is called or another referendum is held. Their campaign is to change the vote, even if they don't say that openly, although some of them actually do.
What happens if we have another GE based on the Brexit fiasco and the party elected want to proceed with Brexit without having a peoples vote. Is that the end of it or does another campaign start.
What happens if we have another Referendum on in or out and the remainers prevail. Is that the end of it. We have the right vote so now its over.
It's been 3 years in June, since the vote How many years will the decision be delayed until we get the right vote. A democratic decision was made and we should honour it and move forward.
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Have you found the article yet?
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