Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't think you can really rule anything out at this stage, it's been a ridiculous journey all along.

I'm astonished that there wasn't early offers of cross party working and an attempt to gain a consensus between Labour and Conservatives who stated they would honour the result in their manifesto's (despite knowing of the very credible accusations of electoral fraud). It's largely been a distraction and an internal crisis between the Tory party and many things which should be more widely discussed are being overlooked - namely home office steafy erosion of civil liberties and circumnavigation of legal process.

I don't really know if a GE will return Brexit MPs, but people are pig headed enough to vote for a single purpose and be dammed with anything else...

I do not think, and it's clear no matter what utter fraudsters and liars like Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg will tell you, that the country does not want No Deal and nobody even entertained the idea prior to the referendum. So it falls to May, not Corbyn, to move her position to secure a deal that the EU will be happy with and parliament will back.. Otherwise it has to be a GE to change parliamentary arithmetic, a people's vote (which is my pragmatic option) or revoke (which is my preferred option).
Leave voters will be angry that the referendum vote has been overturned, or at least not carried out if we are still in a state of limbo. Call it pig headed if you like, but either way anger impairs peoples judgement and I've no doubt a lot of them will vote with a single purpose. And whilst I believe you are correct in assuming that very few people originally voted for a no deal Brexit, a lot of those voters are now so angered by the way Brexit has unfolded that I think they will now gladly accept a no deal.

Whether that would be enough to install a Brexit favouring parliament I doubt very much. So one way or another we're looking at Brexit being overturned, which will lead to a country so divided nobody will want to do business here. I fear we'll be looking at years of further uncertainty, plus a real possibility of the far right infiltrating mainstream UK politics for the first time.
 
Leave voters will be angry that the referendum vote has been overturned, or at least not carried out if we are still in a state of limbo. Call it pig headed if you like, but either way anger impairs peoples judgement and I've no doubt a lot of them will vote with a single purpose. And whilst I believe you are correct in assuming that very few people originally voted for a no deal Brexit, a lot of those voters are now so angered by the way Brexit has unfolded that I think they will now gladly accept a no deal.

Whether that would be enough to install a Brexit favouring parliament I doubt very much. So one way or another we're looking at Brexit being overturned, which will lead to a country so divided nobody will want to do business here. I fear we'll be looking at years of further uncertainty, plus a real possibility of the far right infiltrating mainstream UK politics for the first time.

In a nutshell you have explained why I voted to remain.

I didnt have a clue what voting leave would entail, mean, or result in. So I voted for something I aint that fond of, but on balance, aint that bad.

Obviously, 17.4 million folk were well more in tune with what it would entail, mean, or result in than me.
 
I disagree.

Revoke! you mean revoke the referendum result? Revoke democracy! Make a democratic vote in a democratic country null and void because you're not happy with it.

How about general elections, should we revoke those too? Maybe revoke every general election until we get back to one where you were happy with the result.

May and the Tory party in general, have engineered the whole thing to delay and delay and continue to delay until Brexit never happens. The Tories did not expect to lose the referendum, they expected a positive result! The political reporters can pontificate all they want on TV and in the press about where we should go next with this debacle but ultimately, I do not see Brexit happening without huge compromises to the EU which ties the UK to the EU apron strings on matters like the customs union, permanently.

We had a peoples vote.......It was called a Referendum! The British public made a direct decision to leave the EU. See below.

[ˌrɛfəˈrɛndəm]

NOUN
referenda (plural noun) · referendums (plural noun)

a general vote by the electorate on a single political question which has been referred to them for a direct decision.

Why is a "people's vote" a pragmatic option. It's not, it's your option in the hope that another vote will produce the "right answer" and the right result, just like the Irish in 2008 on the Lisbon Treaty. Should we give 16 year old's a vote, like the Scottish did in their independence vote in the hope of cutting ties with England. What about that result, if it went the other way and they had voted for independence, should we have had another go until the Scottish electorate "got it right".


Below is an extract taken from a newspaper article at the time of the Irish vote on the Lisbon Treaty: Read the last line.

Imagine if, following the election of Barack Obama by 52.9% of American voters, the Republican party, which got just 45.7% of votes, demanded another election. Imagine if the Republicans described Obama's victory as a "triumph of ignorance" – brought about by an "unspeakable" and "ignorant" mass of people who should have been "swatted away by the forces of the establishment" – and insisted on holding a second election so that, this time, the voters could "get it right".


There would be uproar, outrage, widespread disgust at such elite disdain for the democratic process. Well, now you know how the Irish people must feel. In June this year, 53.4% of Irish voters rejected the Lisbon treaty, against 46.6% who supported it (giving the "No" camp a "sweeping victory" similar to Obama's). Yet now the Irish will be asked to vote again. EU officials' behind-doors deal to force a second referendum in Ireland reveals their utter contempt for Irish voters, and for democracy itself. It is an historic sucker punch against the sovereignty of the people.


As soon as the Irish people's ballots were counted in June, their rejection of Lisbon was treated as the "wrong" answer, as if they had been taking part in a multiple-choice maths exam and had failed to work out that 2+2=4. Now, they will be given a chance to sit the exam again, "until [they] come up with the right answer.. The notion that the Irish "got it wrong" exposes gobsmacking ignorance about democracy in the upper echelons of the EU.

The very fact that a majority of Irish people said no to Lisbon made it the "right answer", true and sovereign and final. "No" really does mean no.

In conclusion,

Democracy is only democratic if, in your opinion, we get the right result. That is not democracy, that is election result annulment, vote rigging, electoral fraud, and authoritarian, bullying, dictatorial , undemocratic , unaccountable ignorance of everything democratic.
First time that I've seen someone disagree with my opinion, offer their own, then conclude with a summary of my opinion which I never offered.

But to address a couple of points in your post. GE are binding, they aren't opinion and advisory as a referendum is.

I notice you cite electoral fraud as undemocratic. What is your opinion on the referendum electoral fraud, which by your assessment is undemocratic?
 
So your talking about the second gulf war/insurgency which is a completely different kettle of fish to the first gulf war, which super snowflake #1 fought in and tried to cling to like a badge of honour?

So your now trying to conflate two wars together as if they were the same? I see.

When you eat, do you need to wear a bib? PAL.

Perfect example for the trite, over nationalistic, slack jawed yokel that voted leave you PAL

Suggest you both turn it down lads.
 
Leave voters will be angry that the referendum vote has been overturned, or at least not carried out if we are still in a state of limbo. Call it pig headed if you like, but either way anger impairs peoples judgement and I've no doubt a lot of them will vote with a single purpose. And whilst I believe you are correct in assuming that very few people originally voted for a no deal Brexit, a lot of those voters are now so angered by the way Brexit has unfolded that I think they will now gladly accept a no deal.

Whether that would be enough to install a Brexit favouring parliament I doubt very much. So one way or another we're looking at Brexit being overturned, which will lead to a country so divided nobody will want to do business here. I fear we'll be looking at years of further uncertainty, plus a real possibility of the far right infiltrating mainstream UK politics for the first time.
There are plenty of Leave voters that are already angry...

I think the most sensible option is to now ask them what they want.
 
Have you not been out in the sun today ?
Lovely day MPs off on a jolly because they think they deserve it ........
Come on get a life , I have posted liberally today, my fish needed me.......
You've posted literally 4 times as much as me today Joe. I've posted, aside from this 4 times today and had a 7 hour gap in between - in which I had a fine day in the sun.

Maybe take your own advice. That's my posting history for today. Go and look at your own.

Screenshot_20190419-192029.webp
 
In a nutshell you have explained why I voted to remain.

I didnt have a clue what voting leave would entail, mean, or result in. So I voted for something I aint that fond of, but on balance, aint that bad.

Obviously, 17.4 million folk were well more in tune with what it would entail, mean, or result in than me.
Not really mate, but many were up for a change and thought that we would/could get a decent trade deal with the EU. We still could if May and Corbyn get their heads together and enough of their respective parties support it.

If a deal can be agreed there is still some hope that both sides accept it as a compromise and move on. I just can't see that happening though.

The UK has never fully embraced what the EU is about, and there has been a growing number of people who were genuine euro sceptic. However my own view is that a lot of the people who voted to leave in the referendum were not particularly passionate about it. If the referendum had never happened many would still be happily going about their lives as before. There would still be the euro sceptics but the country would not be divided the way it is now. Sadly this isn't back to the future so what's done can't be undone, and anger at the way Brexit is now being reversed is just dividing the country even more.
 
You've posted literally 4 times as much as me today Joe. I've posted, aside from this 4 times today and had a 7 hour gap in between - in which I had a fine day in the sun.

Maybe take your own advice. That's my posting history for today. Go and look at your own.

View attachment 57096

Joe takes posting in turn with Igor and Alexei to help keep the frequency up.
 
You've posted literally 4 times as much as me today Joe. I've posted, aside from this 4 times today and had a 7 hour gap in between - in which I had a fine day in the sun.

Maybe take your own advice. That's my posting history for today. Go and look at your own.

View attachment 57096
Yes but my post are manly on the old pictures thread - a hobby of mine .....not incted riots lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top