Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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The deal was requested and negotiated by the UK government. The EU protected its' own red lines, which they had to do, because the freedoms are enshrined - as you were told repeatedly before all this began and dismissed. You said the Germans would bend over backwards to protect trade and we had all the leverage.

Everything you say is nonsense mate, pure nonsense and has been proven as thus.

If you're looking for people to blame, blame May for her incompetence and people like yourself for having no understanding of what the situation was and is.

I do blame May and her civil service for the amateurish way they have negotiated. She said all along that no deal is better than a bad deal. She has a bad deal. The Germans are already facing major problems with their economy and a no deal will not help them one iota. Now everything I say is not nonsense, as you well know. Just because you disagree doesn’t make it so. I’m not looking to blame anyone btw, I was looking forward to leaving the EU on the 29th March, but it now looks like that it may slightly delayed....
 
While May and the Tories are the chief culprits in this utter, complete fiasco, Corbyn and the Labour Party haven't helped. Most of these politicians put their party first, not what's good for the country.
Couldn't agree with this more.

I don't think there's any doubt that the Government, and in particular Theresa May, should take the bulk of the criticism for the current situation, but let's not kid ourselves that parliament as a whole and, indeed, the much venerated EU, are completely devoid of blame.

Given that the referendum was only "advisory" the initial plan to make it a governmental process rather than a parliament process was quite simply lunacy. The ridiculous court case that followed was not only predictable but set the tone for the whole Brexit process.

The next huge mistake was not formulating a proper Brexit plan to take to the EU negotiations. Given that you need parliament consent to any agreement, it makes absolute sense to have cross party involvement in a committee set up to formulate the plan. In addition this committee should have included top civil servants from the appropriate depts., top legal advisors, top people from finance and industry, and European experts who could advise on what we could expect the other side would be coming up with so we could properly prepared. We should then have agreed on a negotiating team which, ideally, would have been cross party, or at the very least have representatives from the 2 main parties. This should all have been done before we even invoked article 50.

The third humungous error was putting at risk her slim majority by taking the country to a general election. The first thing I said when I saw the subsequent agreement with the DUP was that this could get sticky when it comes to the one land border that we have with the EU. It's not as if this was rocket science. The Irish border had already been identified as one of the major area's that needed to be addressed in the negotiations. How could the government not have foreseen this?

Fast forward to the present position. Everybody is talking of the need to compromise, but everyone is expecting the other side to compromise. Nobody, not just the government, is prepared to budge an inch on their own red lines. Plus far too many are still either playing party politics or, even worse in my opinion, have some personal self fulfilling motive ( Boris Johnson immediately springs to mind). This latest walkout by Jeremy Corbyn is a case in point. One moment he's standing up in parliament in PMs questions saying the country is in crisis and baiting the PM to meet with him that afternoon, and then walks out of said meeting because he doesn't like the fact that one of the other participants is present. That's absolutely indefensible and, in it's own way is no different than the political posturing of the DUP that has been so often criticised in this thread. Anybody supporting Corbyn presumably agrees that this political statement is obviously more important than sorting out Brexit, which I find hard to understand given that we now are in an actual crisis with Brexit.
 
The reason that our parliament is tearing itself apart is because the deal offered by the EU is unacceptable to both Remainers and Leavers. This didn’t have to be so, but the EU decided not to be sensible. I’m not even blaming the EU really, as I have no problem with a no deal result if that is what we have to deal with.....
It wasn't a deal offered by the EU, it was a deal negotiated between the EU and the UK
edit: what Tubey said.
 
I do blame May and her civil service for the amateurish way they have negotiated. She said all along that no deal is better than a bad deal. She has a bad deal. The Germans are already facing major problems with their economy and a no deal will not help them one iota. Now everything I say is not nonsense, as you well know. Just because you disagree doesn’t make it so. I’m not looking to blame anyone btw, I was looking forward to leaving the EU on the 29th March, but it now looks like that it may slightly delayed....

I posted a video yesterday Pete of David Davis giving it a whole lot of his usual delusional bluster prior to Brexit about how if he were given the job of negotiating things, it'd be easy peasy. He got the job and he was utterly awful. Can we please put this notion that there are master negotiators out there who would have secured the Brexit dream?
 
If the EU says it's only there deal no change or no extension, and Berscow says you can't vote on the same thing back to parliament to vote on, surely that means they can't vote so it's a no deal Brexit?
Berscow will change his mind if it suits him.

One of the things that has come out of this mess imo is that the role of the speaker needs reviewing. It has too many powers that are open to abuse if the holder of the position is not completely impartial. Call me a cynic but I'm not sure "that person" exists in politics anymore.
 
So what about the easy deal we were promised by Leave proponents? Where is it? If it's so easy why can't we do it now? Surely it's not now called "No Deal"?

It’s a deal to leave the EU. It is not a trade deal. It should have been the basis for sound relationships in respect of Defence, Security, Finance, and Technology cooperation etc etc. It was also an opportunity for the U.K. to determine what monies it still owes or the items that we would want to buy into. Unfortunately the EU don’t want to be sensible, and that’s fine, they have their red lines and Political wishes. But the U.K. will still be the EU’s biggest trading partner, deal or no deal, that hasn’t gone away. So many of the aspects of the ‘deal’ will still be enacted in order to allow trade, but without the U.K. having to be under the control of EU courts or be bound by the stupid ‘backstop’......in fact if they had negotiated a free trade deal in parallel, as the U.K. wanted, the issue of the ‘backstop’ would never even have occurred.......
 
Berscow will change his mind if it suits him.

One of the things that has come out of this mess imo is that the role of the speaker needs reviewing. It has too many powers that are open to abuse if the holder of the position is not completely impartial. Call me a cynic but I'm not sure "that person" exists in politics anymore.

Indeed.....
 
It’s a deal to leave the EU. It is not a trade deal. It should have been the basis for sound relationships in respect of Defence, Security, Finance, and Technology cooperation etc etc. It was also an opportunity for the U.K. to determine what monies it still owes or the items that we would want to buy into. Unfortunately the EU don’t want to be sensible, and that’s fine, they have their red lines and Political wishes. But the U.K. will still be the EU’s biggest trading partner, deal or no deal, that hasn’t gone away. So many of the aspects of the ‘deal’ will still be enacted in order to allow trade, but without the U.K. having to be under the control of EU courts or be bound by the stupid ‘backstop’......in fact if they had negotiated a free trade deal in parallel, as the U.K. wanted, the issue of the ‘backstop’ would never even have occurred.......

That's quite some revisionism Pete. The only real sticking point is the backstop, which is something the British proposed, only for it to then be rejected by parliament. Perhaps if May had actually consulted with the house prior to negotiating (or, heaven forbid figured out what they wanted prior to triggering article 50), they wouldn't be in such a mess. The EU have done nothing but sit there looking bewildered by the incompetence.
 
The reason that our parliament is tearing itself apart is because the deal offered by the EU is unacceptable to both Remainers and Leavers. This didn’t have to be so, but the EU decided not to be sensible. I’m not even blaming the EU really, as I have no problem with a no deal result if that is what we have to deal with.....


No Peter.

The reason parliament is “tearing itself” apart is because The DUP was allowed to veto the perfectly acceptable and sensible deal the EU and the UK government agreed in November/December 2017.

This is what happens when a political party....the Tory party in this instance....puts itself above the national interest and makes a deal with a small, backward thinking, bigoted, sleazy, corrupt but worst of all totally incompetent gang in order to cling onto power (there is a reason NI has no government right now and it has its genesis in the DUP inspired RHI scandal).

When you sup with the devil, as May has been doing since her ill fated election in the summer of 2017, be prepared to swallow a toxic concoction.

And this what you are facing being force fed with now if May’s deal goes through next week.

You will leave the EU in name only.

But don’t blame the EU.

Don’t blame the DUP even.

Blame the Conservative party for being a power hungry group of mongrels.
 
...in fact if they had accepted a free trade deal in parallel, as the U.K. wanted, the issue of the ‘backstop’ would never even have occurred.......
Fixed for you. The leave proponents...leave at all costs,sort out the details later, genuinely expected to roll over the EU and get them to agree to anything. Now, when the EU fight their corner, THEY are unreasonable, intransigent etc. You couldn't make it up. Except they did.
 
I posted a video yesterday Pete of David Davis giving it a whole lot of his usual delusional bluster prior to Brexit about how if he were given the job of negotiating things, it'd be easy peasy. He got the job and he was utterly awful. Can we please put this notion that there are master negotiators out there who would have secured the Brexit dream?

Bruce, we have had 3 Brexit Secretaries, because May, her Remainer cabinet and her Remainer civil servants haven’t even let them do their job. May has dabbled, our Chancellor has held back funding, Corbyn and Co together with Blair and a whole raft of Remainers have been to Brussels and stiffened the EU approach, in the belief that the vote could be changed. It has been a complete shambles.......
 
No Peter.

The reason parliament is “tearing itself” apart is because The DUP was allowed to veto the perfectly acceptable and sensible deal the EU and the UK government agreed in November/December 2017.

This is what happens when a political party....the Tory party in this instance....puts itself above the national interest and makes a deal with a small, backward thinking, bigoted, sleazy, corrupt but worst of all totally incompetent gang in order to cling onto power (there is a reason NI has no government right now and it has its genesis in the DUP inspired RHI scandal).

When you sup with the devil, as May has been doing since her ill fated election in the summer of 2017, be prepared to swallow a toxic concoction.

And this what you are facing being force fed with now if May’s deal goes through next week.

You will leave the EU in name only.

But don’t blame the EU.

Don’t blame the DUP even.

Blame the Conservative party for being a power hungry group of mongrels.

Then why didn’t Labour vote for this perfectly sensible deal. I mean they have a lot more MP’s than the 10 from the DUP....
 
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