Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Wizard]

How about remain and accept the EU as it currently is or remain and fight for reform to make it more economically efficient.

We need to remain in the EU but I definitely believe the EU need to change.

I agree. But if we are part of the EU then we are part of the conversation. The option on the table was not, remain/remain but try and reform the EU or Brexit. It was Brexit or remain.

It could have been remain, remain but push reform, leave with no deal, leave with a deal that has been negotiated over 2 years, leave with Norway +, leave with a Canada style deal, leave in the customs union but nothing else etc etc.

The options on the leave side were much less clear than on the remain.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I'm not sure how to explain this but we can also unilaterally revoke Article 50.

We can also agree a deal before 29th. Still 16 days. The closer we get to deadline without a deadline extension agreed, the more attractive May's deal becomes.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I agree. But if we are part of the EU then we are part of the conversation. The option on the table was not, remain/remain but try and reform the EU or Brexit. It was Brexit or remain.

It could have been remain, remain but push reform, leave with no deal, leave with a deal that has been negotiated over 2 years, leave with Norway +, leave with a Canada style deal, leave in the customs union but nothing else etc etc.

The options on the leave side were much less clear than on the remain.

The fact is that Leave vs Remain, completely overlooks the 'how' element of the process.

 

[Wizard]

You mean laws such as workers rights, product safety, maternity pay, food safety standards? Are they the terrible laws we have no control over?

Sorry, think you misread my sarcasm (which is a problem with text admittedly). I should have said “terrible laws” as I then went on to say they are laws no one wanting rid of them can ever cite.

 

[Jebus_lives]

We can also agree a deal before 29th. Still 16 days. The closer we get to deadline without a deadline extension agreed, the more attractive May's deal becomes.

See the problem I have is that her position is 'its this deal or no deal'.

That's not strictly true as other deals are a possibility, she just won't consider moving as a slight tilt either way means she upsets a significant portion of her party.

 

[Barnfred 55]

So you had doubts when you didn’t know the leave campaign was based on lies but now it’s been proven to be based on lies you’d have no doubt voting leave again ?

I can understand someone having doubts and switching to remain or someone not having any doubts and still being pro brexit but your stance is somewhat unique.

I would hazard a guess that's because, like a lot of remain voters, you think you understand why people voted Brexit. When the truth is, you really don't understand us at all.

I have yet to meet one person who voted Brexit who regrets voting Brexit and wouldn't do exactly the same again. If anything, our resolve is stronger than it was nearly 3 years ago.

 

[Barnfred 55]

See the problem I have is that her position is 'its this deal or no deal'.

That's not strictly true as other deals are a possibility, she just won't consider moving as a slight tilt either way means she upsets a significant portion of her party.

That's true. But it isn't just true of May. Nobody else is changing their stance either. They all talk of red lines but everybody has their own red lines and nobody is budging. That's the problem. But May is the only one getting it in the neck which is wrong. It's the whole damn lot of them.

 

[-Rob-]

I would hazard a guess that's because, like a lot of remain voters, you think you understand why people voted Brexit. When the truth is, you really don't understand us at all.

Help me understand. Why did you vote leave? What do you see as the benefits of leaving the EU?

 

[Jebus_lives]

I would hazard a guess that's because, like a lot of remain voters, you think you understand why people voted Brexit. When the truth is, you really don't understand us at all.

I have yet to meet one person who voted Brexit who regrets voting Brexit and wouldn't do exactly the same again. If anything, our resolve is stronger than it was nearly 3 years ago.

What would be your position on a softer Brexit, like a Corbyn type scenario?

Acceptable or pointless?

 

[Jebus_lives]

That's true. But it isn't just true of May. Nobody else is changing their stance either. They all talk of red lines but everybody has their own red lines and nobody is budging. That's the problem. But May is the only one getting it in the neck which is wrong. It's the whole damn lot of them.

Oh it's the red lines across the party, but she's so desperately trying to stay in power, she won't budge on anything for fear of upsetting the balance of the party. Had she not gone for the GE, she could probably comfortably have had it passed by now.

But she won't look beyond her party for a solution.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Spellman dropped the amendment because of the Government whip, but Yvette Cooper wouldn't let it be removed so it was 'owned by the house'.

In the second vote of the night, the government whipped again, but Tory MPs and some labour MPs ignored it.

But the second vote was on the amendment which replaced May' original motion yes?

 

[Barnfred 55]

Help me understand. Why did you vote leave? What do you see as the benefits of leaving the EU?

No disrespect mate, but I've done that before on here and you end up being systematically picked apart and having to defend your views to people you don't even know. I have posted a lot in here recently and considerably more about 2 years ago. Feel free to look back over my posts.

But I'd ask why can't you just accept that not all people are the same and respect the fact that some will have different opinions to you. And I'll show you the same courtesy.

 

[Barnfred 55]

What would be your position on a softer Brexit, like a Corbyn type scenario?

Acceptable or pointless?

To be honest I think it's largely pointless as it's not much different to staying in. I think with the May deal there is every chance that we can get a good, or at least decent, trade deal with the EU, not least because it's in there own interest to do so as well. As you know I don't think they want to entrap us and are probably as keen as we are to avoid the NI backstop. There needs to be trust.

If we have to do a Corbyn type deal to move on then I would reluctantly accept that. The problem is, for the country to move forward collectively there has to be a bit of give and take, and staying in the EU will still leave approximately 50% of the population disengaged.

 

[summerisle]

I think you`re going have to explain a lot of that for the benefit of @Joey66

You have to appreciate he stopped listening to music after Vera Lynn died.

Vera Lynn is still alive and kicking, just, she's 101.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I know this will have almost certainly been covered many times in this thread but it’s too long and moves too quick to fully keep up with.

But if so many people still want to leave, then why can’t we have a second referendum based on the information we have now? Nearly 3 years later. I look forward to no more General Elections despite information we may have learnt in the 4/5 years previous. I look forward to the laws that are introduced when we Brexit never being allowed to be change because it was the will of the people.

Because despite May suffering the biggest defeat in Commons history, it's ok for her to ask their opinion again on the same deal, but it's not ok to ask the public again having slithered a tiny victory past in the referendum. Just as it was perfectly fine for Mogg and his gang to try and unseat a democratically elected prime minister months after her election. You'd think it's patently obvious that these charlatans use 'the will of the people' to browbeat through whatever they want to do. They couldn't actually give a toss about the 'people', just as Farage bleating on and on about sovereignty whilst now admitting that he's going to lobby via his EU role to get foreign governments to block an extension of article 50. These people are crooks.