Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Yid4life]

It was patently obvious that despite Leave winning the referendum that it would never happen.

When the 52% of the electorate that voted Leave are represented by an 80%+ Remain parliament it wasnt really rocket science.

The EU elections in May will be interesting. Particularly if Farage gets his Brexit Party off the ground.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It was patently obvious that despite Leave winning the referendum that it would never happen.

When the 52% of the electorate that voted Leave are represented by an 80%+ Remain parliament it wasnt really rocket science.

The EU elections in May will be interesting. Particularly if Farage gets his Brexit Party off the ground.

What's interesting (from an intellectual point of view at least) is how resistant people are to any kind of evidence on this matter. People have long pondered how the German population could have both seen the rise of Hitler into power and turned a blind eye to his monstrosities, but we're seeing just why that kind of thing happens here and now, both in Britain and the United States.

 

[Yid4life]

What's interesting (from an intellectual point of view at least) is how resistant people are to any kind of evidence on this matter. People have long pondered how the German population could have both seen the rise of Hitler into power and turned a blind eye to his monstrosities, but we're seeing just why that kind of thing happens here and now, both in Britain and the United States.

So politicians know what is best for the ignorant electorate/population?

The same argument that white colonists used to use when subjugating the natives.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So politicians know what is best for the ignorant electorate/population?

The same argument that white colonists used to use when subjugating the natives.

that's quite an intellectual leap to make. The last few years has, if nothing else, provided a huge amount of evidence around how our life is affected by EU membership. We should know far more about the concerns business has, or academia. We should know about migration and the pros and cons. All of these have been explored in quite some depth not by government politicians but by independent and respected bodies, and yet it's hard to see any improvement in the general knowledge of the public on such matters.

 

[Yid4life]

lol that's quite an intellectual leap to make. The last few years has, if nothing else, provided a huge amount of evidence around how our life is affected by EU membership. We should know far more about the concerns business has, or academia. We should know about migration and the pros and cons. All of these have been explored in quite some depth not by government politicians but by independent and respected bodies, and yet it's hard to see any improvement in the general knowledge of the public on such matters.

IQ tests before being allowed to vote?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

IQ tests before being allowed to vote?

I suspect a basic knowledge test around the subject you're voting on would improve our democracy, but again, that isn't what I advocated in the post you're responding to. Cognitive agility is actually pretty important in life, yet there doesn't appear to be much sign of it.

 

[Yid4life]

I suspect a basic knowledge test around the subject you're voting on would improve our democracy, but again, that isn't what I advocated in the post you're responding to. Cognitive agility is actually pretty important in life, yet there doesn't appear to be much sign of it.

Give me a second, I've just got to go and get my dictionary. I don't understand big words.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Give me a second, I've just got to go and get my dictionary. I don't understand big words.

When you have done that, may I suggest looking up representative democracy and one that uses UK as the example.
And what we are all seeing is how the UK parliament operates all the time. Difference being the general news media are interested for the first time.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Paranoid nonsense. The EU have gone out of their way to facilitate an orderly Brexit. It is Westminster that has thwarted all attempts for the UK to leave amicably.

The reason the EU won't agree to a time limit is because it would make the backstop pointless.

The reason they won't agree to a time limit is that a permanent backstop suits the EU perfectly because it makes UK completely uncompetitive, and maintains their income.

To suggest they went out of their way when they refused to even reopen the text is a bit baffling. You don't seriously believe that?

The UK has said no tariffs with ROI if a no deal. Would the EU reciprocate? Never in a million years...

 

[orchard]

The reason they won't agree to a time limit is that a permanent backstop suits the EU perfectly because it makes UK completely uncompetitive, and maintains their income.

To suggest they went out of their way when they refused to even reopen the text is a bit baffling. You don't seriously believe that?

The UK has said no tariffs with ROI if a no deal. Would the EU reciprocate? Never in a million years...

Who would?

 

[ToffeeTim]

From what I'm seeing I do think the longer delay looks very likely, almost inevitable tbh. This parliament can't pass law so it's the only outcome I can see.

 

[orchard]

"A Tory MP speaking to me tonight in the House of Commons said about the Prime Minister “that she is bat crazy and every Bit as bad as you think she is, except worse than you imagine”"

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

You sure that's right mate?

My understanding was that the Spellman amendment was voted in by a majority of 4 (312-308 I think) and so the amendment then replaced May's original motion in the vote. Her original motion was never voted on.

My understanding was that Spellman raised the amendment to remove no/deal whatever the date.

The amendment was allowed to be voted on before the original govt amendment (no deal on 29 March). Then she realised that the govt would whip against her amendment and so withdrew, however her amendment was adopted by Yvette Cooper and voted on.

The govt lost the amendment vote by 312 to 308 with a number of tories including cabinet ministers abstaining or even voted against the govt.

then they lost the second vote (the original motion). Which was a free vote and they were always going to lose that one.

 

[orchard]

My understanding was that Spellman raised the amendment to remove no/deal whatever the date.

The amendment was allowed to be voted on before the original govt amendment (no deal on 29 March). Then she realised that the govt would whip against her amendment and so withdrew, however her amendment was adopted by Yvette Cooper and voted on.

The govt lost the amendment vote by 312 to 308 with a number of tories including cabinet ministers abstaining or even voted against the govt.

then they lost the second vote (the original motion). Which was a free vote and they were always going to lose that one.

-and still May continues to attempt to play parliament and game the system.

 

[Jebus_lives]

To be honest I think it's largely pointless as it's not much different to staying in. I think with the May deal there is every chance that we can get a good, or at least decent, trade deal with the EU, not least because it's in there own interest to do so as well. As you know I don't think they want to entrap us and are probably as keen as we are to avoid the NI backstop. There needs to be trust.

If we have to do a Corbyn type deal to move on then I would reluctantly accept that. The problem is, for the country to move forward collectively there has to be a bit of give and take, and staying in the EU will still leave approximately 50% of the population disengaged.

If you don't mind me asking, why did you vote leave initially? What change did you want?