Current Affairs EU In or Out

[The binman chronicles]

Having a second referendum is nothing more then an easy way around ignoring the first one.

It is only that if you're encamped to the leave at all costs brigade. If May's deal had won or we get a leave in just but name but still under the control of EU laws, including free movement, wouldn't you then want a referendum to say 'hang on that is not what I voted for?'

It is all good for the leavers until something negative looms on the horizon and then they will change their tune.

Bottom line is no one voted for a no deal brexit, we were told exiting was simple, there will be deals galore, the UK would return to a land of milk and honey where there will be fairies and unicorns in abundance. Corbyn still thinks he can get a magical deal out of the EU! I'm really starting to believe this bunch of politicians are just thick. Basically a vote is required to see how many would accept a no deal brexit (which is difficult as still no one has answered the question of what happens to the NI border if that happens - Surely it would have to be a hard one) against the easier Norway style deal. It could just be those two options (mandatory one or the other) with a question if the side you have selected does not get a majority would you rather just stay in the EU. Which would be almost certainly better than taking the Norway deal. The numbers can then be crunched to give a true picture of will of the people.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

It is only that if you're encamped to the leave at all costs brigade. If May's deal had won or we get a leave in just but name but still under the control of EU laws, including free movement, wouldn't you then want a referendum to say 'hang on that is not what I voted for?'

It is all good for the leavers until something negative looms on the horizon and then they will change their tune.

Bottom line is no one voted for a no deal brexit, we were told exiting was simple, there will be deals galore, the UK would return to a land of milk and honey where there will be fairies and unicorns in abundance. Corbyn still thinks he can get a magical deal out of the EU! I'm really starting to believe this bunch of politicians are just thick. Basically a vote is required to see how many would accept a no deal brexit (which is difficult as still no one has answered the question of what happens to the NI border if that happens - Surely it would have to be a hard one) against the easier Norway style deal. It could just be those two options (mandatory one or the other) with a question if the side you have selected does not get a majority would you rather just stay in the EU. Which would be almost certainly better than taking the Norway deal. The numbers can then be crunched to give a true picture of will of the people.

I'm past caring at this stage so I'm far from leave at all costs. I just know that I'll never vote in a referendum ever again as things stand because my vote is utterly worthless and will just be ignored if it's not what parliament wants to hear.

 

[hallamblue]

I'm past caring at this stage so I'm far from leave at all costs. I just know that I'll never vote in a referendum ever again as things stand because my vote is utterly worthless and will just be ignored if it's not what parliament wants to hear.

That's referenda for you mate. They had 1 in Ireland and when they got the "wrong vote" they just ran it again! It creates the illusion of democracy, in a country that doesn't want real democracy, which you can only get via proportional representation.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Interesting at the World Economic Forum this morning, their risk report highlights the growing complexity of challenges the world faces, but the increased risk that countries are unable or unwilling to act together to solve them. Of course, this could all be project fear.

 

[orchard]

The lib-dems were in no position to demand anything at the time the referendum was called. They'd lost the vast bulk of their MP's and were in a freefall that they've still not recovered from. Even if that was the case, Cameron should of said that he couldn't call a referendum on those terms. Hell, that could of been his get out of jail free excuse to not keep his promise of the referendum.

Obviously they were, but what the Tories wanted I do not know.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

We need Jezza now to force a motion for a second referendum

He has to go through the due process, whether anyone believes his preference on what he wants is moot points and boring semantics.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I'm past caring at this stage so I'm far from leave at all costs. I just know that I'll never vote in a referendum ever again as things stand because my vote is utterly worthless and will just be ignored if it's not what parliament wants to hear.

I'm sorry you feel that way and I can understand why you do. However it was the question in this case was at fault. A Norway + or whatever is still leaving the EU, this is the kind of thing that creates the ambiguity that then breeds the chaos. The Scottish referendum was an easier simple binary choice, not all ones in future will be as loaded as this one. The problem stems from that they have let us vote on something thinking that remain would win so they never really thought through the consequences. I have viewed it as almost undeliverable from the start, if we shared a land border with France, we would throw up a hard border and job done. Free to leave. This was always going to be messy and by just passing it on to the people to appease his own party Cameron screwed us all.

If there is to be a second referendum you should vote for what you want to happen as I don't subscribe to people saying it will be the best of 3 and so on. You have to make it count if you believe in something. There is no guarantee we will stay in the EU or leave and stay in the customs union if that is not what the majority want.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I'm sorry you feel that way and I can understand why you do. However it was the question in this case was at fault. A Norway + or whatever is still leaving the EU, this is the kind of thing that creates the ambiguity that then breeds the chaos. The Scottish referendum was an easier simple binary choice, not all ones in future will be as loaded as this one. The problem stems from that they have let us vote on something thinking that remain would win so they never really thought through the consequences. I have viewed it as almost undeliverable from the start, if we shared a land border with France, we would throw up a hard border and job done. Free to leave. This was always going to be messy and by just passing it on to the people to appease his own party Cameron screwed us all.

If there is to be a second referendum you should vote for what you want to happen as I don't subscribe to people saying it will be the best of 3 and so on. You have to make it count if you believe in something. There is no guarantee we will stay in the EU or leave and stay in the customs union if that is not what the majority want.

For me to vote again, I'd need to believe In the integrity of our politicians and that they'd respect the way the vote would go even of they disagreed with it. I dont have any faith in them whatsoever. I dont believe in any of them or trust them in the slightest. I think that we have the most corrupt and incompetent politicians (across all parties) in Western Europe and I refuse to play their game anymore.

It's not all about the referendum for me at this point. It's gone beyond that. I'm afraid that until I see proper reform in this country my vote is utterly worthless. When you have such pathetic specimens running our country on both sides of the divide it's clear that any sort of reform and change from both the left and the right will always be blocked and stopped. I'm actually grateful for this whole fiasco because it's opened my eyes to how pointless voting in this country is.

 

[Ron Swanson]

And then you have Parliament going against the democratic process and the will of the people. Whichever move is made now has no positive outcome.

If parliament was to defer to the will of the people over the good of the nation, we wouldn't have advanced gay and women's rights when we did. We'd probably have had the death penalty up until a few years ago. There's a reason we have the system that we have.

 

[Ron Swanson]

it would signal an end of the democratic vote.

a second vote can never happen

Should Theresa May ignore the 2017 snap election then? After all, the will of the people was expressed in the 2015 election and by your reckoning, people can't or shouldn't be allowed to change their mind after two years.

I ask you this to answer honestly: What would be more reflective of the democratic will of the people at this given point in time?
1) a referendum in 2016 where we did not know what a leave deal would look like, nor did we have the full facts regarding leave.
2) a referendum in 2019 where we have an exact idea of the leave deal we can get and are better informed as to what a no deal situation looks like.

The answer to that question is the most democratic. As someone else says, the reason leavers don't want a second vote is not that they want to uphold democracy, but rather because they are afraid that they will lose a second referendum.

 

[peteblue]

Wait... what??

You’ll have to explain this to me.

Her last 2 years work has resulted in the biggest defeat of all time for a government.

How is that playing a blinder?

She cam across as a Leader, defeated but still a Leader. Corbyn came over as a rather depressing nonentity. He will lose the confidence vote and May will emerge strong again, and now with a massive mandate to have another go at the E.U. ....

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Sovereignty, my dear boy. Article 50 can be withdrawn by a vote in parliament. That is how British democracy works - it doesn't require a plebiscite or even a general election. If parliament wants to withdraw it, they can.

I’m not really up on how parliament works etc, but because no deal is the default setting, and if we just decided to drop Brexit all together, then don’t we have to legally write it into British law?

 

[peteblue]

They're a big organisation Pete - they can absorb the impact of a no deal Brexit. It will hurt them but they can and will deal with it. They won't change the deal as it stands. It's up to us to get our act together and quickly.

I believe the next step will be that May wins the vote today and jezza will then table a motion for a second referendum. He stands a chance of winning that vote, but it will be very close.

Germany are already coming out and saying that talks are needed with London. It may be a big organisation, but Germany just escaped going into recession by one day and they have the single biggest financial problem if there is no deal and they know it.

I no longer believe that we will now have a second referendum because whoever calls for it will be political toast. Leave voters seem quite happy to go with no deal. But all will be revealed shortly.....

 

[Blues Harp]

Cameron/honourable pick one.

You can say what you want about May but Cameron is in no way shape or form fit to lecture her or anyone else on being "honourable". At least she didn't run away from a situation she created unlike her predecessor.

We all know that Cameron would of walked since he was quite happy to do a disappearing act right after the the referendum that he called didn't go the way he wanted. He's a slimball with zero respect or decency, who's lower then a snakes belly. This farce begins with him doing his normal smear campaign in the 2015 election and offering a referendum to steal votes, only because he didn't believe for a second that he'd ever have to act on his promise. After winning, he prestents the most watered down, deliberately vague and horribly mismanaged referendum ever to be seen in a supposedly civilised nation and proceeded to fight yet another lazy smear campaign talking about everything other then the relevant facts. People talk about the lies that were told during the referendum, well that could of been prevented had Cameron spent half an hour when setting up the referendum to create some guidelines.

Then when it's all said and done, the dust has settled and the results are in what does the oh so "honourable" Cameron do when the results don't go his way? Does he live up to his responsibilities and uphold the referendum and do all the work that goes with it? Does he stand up, be a man and admit that he's made some colossal blunders, say that the referendum was a mistake to begin with and that he would be ignoring it based on the fact that it's not legally binding? No, he does none of that. He simply walks (or rather slithers) away like the slimy snake that he is. He's a disgusting, cowardly spineless shall of a man who wouldn't have the first clue about honour.

He is a typical scummy lying tory.....as for May playing a blinder, she needs to come clean on the " lost" paedophile files during her term as home secretary. Need a G/E to get rid of one of the most spineless uncaring and talentless governments in our history. Not just about brexit.....

 

[peteblue]

Yeah... it's the EU that have a lot to think about... lol

Yeah, they are just happy laughing as us stupid Brits heading for a WTO trading arrangement.....say hello to Varadkar for me....