Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

That is one man's opinion, FLHD. Nothing more. How can he possibly claim to speak to 17+ million people of the UK? Why do you possibly hang your hat on the words of ONE man?

It really is becoming ridiculous! Whoops, more straws floating by on the wind...

What a daft come back.

One man's view? that one man being the guy who headed up the Leave campaign and spent his days analysing poll data on a daily basis, looking for the effects of their marketing and campaign slogans, and adjusting their focus accordingly......he's not just Joe Bloggs off the street giving his opinion ffs.

Your complete refusal to accept the reality that the NHS lie did have a significant impact is pure delusion, you can continue to wallow in it for me as it's nothing more than pig headed ignorance to deny it was thus.

 

[Old Blue 2]

What a daft come back.

One man's view? that one man being the guy who headed up the Leave campaign and spent his days analysing poll data on a daily basis, looking for the effects of their marketing and campaign slogans, and adjusting their focus accordingly......he's not just Joe Bloggs off the street giving his opinion ffs.

Your complete refusal to accept the reality that the NHS lie did have a significant impact is pure delusion, you can continue to wallow in it for me as it's nothing more than pig headed ignorance to deny it was thus.

The pig-headed ignorance is on your part, for not seeing the £350 Million as an equivalent figure. I will say it again, and eventually it might sink in to you. The Referendum was cross-party. It had no say in where money in the treasury ultimately went. As I said before, it was an equivalent figure, an exhortation to do something positive. You can bask in the glory of believing it was a lie. Others can see it as something different; something it really was.

And while you champion one person's assessment of the Referendum, go look at all the cock-ups Carney made opening his mouth time and again about the financial state of the country post-Referendum. Selective quoting appears to be your game.

You should take a good look at yourself before calling someone pig-headed ignorant...

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

The pig-headed ignorance is on your part, for not seeing the £350 Million as an equivalent figure. I will say it again, and eventually it might sink in to you. The Referendum was cross-party. It had no say in where money in the treasury ultimately went. As I said before, it was an equivalent figure, an exhortation to do something positive. You can bask in the glory of believing it was a lie. Others can see it as something different; something it really was.

And while you champion one person's assessment of the Referendum, go look at all the cock-ups Carney made opening his mouth time and again about the financial state of the country post-Referendum. Selective quoting appears to be your game.

You should take a good look at yourself before calling someone pig-headed ignorant...

The £350m was not an equivalent figure, as it simply doesn't represent the amount of additional cash that we could have given to the NHS. As we simply don't pay that amount of cash to the EU.

It was therefore a completely disingenuous lie.

We pay £250m a week gross and after EU cash coming back this side of the channel the true net figure is £160m. So had they chosen to say we could have put £160m a week back into the NHS, then no-one could have taken issue with it as a concept - merely disputed that there'd be any saving left to do anything with once we leave, as our GDP will fall meaning there'll likely be no 'saving' whatsoever for the Treasury to do what it likes with....

Cummings headed up Leave, and Leave's research showed that the NHS lie was a prime factor in the very close result. His view was that without it Leave wouldn't have won, and that view was based on their figures.

You seem incapable of separating your own view from that of your fellow leave voters, many of whom were undecided until the day of the vote. The NHS lie was a prime factor in the result whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

 

[Old Blue 2]

FLHD: No further point...

 

[peteblue]

Well, as you’re talking about lies......

“Recently, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, blamed the Brexit vote on 40 years of lies and the lies of ‘Leave’ campaigners. Juncker is correct in one sense, there were many lies during the EU Referendum campaign, however these lies were from the ‘Remain’ side. The so-called lies from Leavers are a figment of the federalist’s imagination.

The UK gives the EU a gross contribution of £350 million a week. This is not a lie, and it is an amount which could be spent on the NHS if the UK Government so wished. These are usually touted as lies, but this stems from ‘Remain’ campaigners being unable to tell the difference between the words ‘gross’ and ‘net’ as well as the difference between the words ‘could’ and ‘will’.

In reality the lies came from the ‘Remain’ campaign.

European Council President Donald Tusk, said western political civilisation would be destroyed if the UK voted ‘Leave’. As I am sitting here writing this article, and as you are currently reading this, it is safe to say western political civilisation has not ended. Therefore, we must conclude this was a ‘Remain’ lie.

David Cameron implied in a speech about the “serried rows of white headstones” that World War 3 would be upon us if Brexit occurred. The last time I checked the UK had not invaded Poland or any other country, and therefore we must conclude this was a lie.

George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented. To date, no changes to the planned tax rates or public spending have been implemented. So, another lie, and thankfully after his sacking Osborne is no longer in a position create his ‘punishment budget’.

Despite Anna Soubry’s claim to the contrary on a recent Question Time appearance, Remainers did suggest there would be an immediate Brexit recession. No recession to date, in fact the OECD now believes the UK economy will grow 1.8% this year, up 0.1% on its pre-referendum estimate. Even Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, now admits he is “quietly optimistic” about Brexit. Lie number four.

3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs was the fictitious figure banded about. However, in July the claimant count fell by 8,600 to 763,600, despite an expected rise of 9,500. Another lie.

“A dangerous fantasy” is how Nick Clegg described Nigel Farage’s claim of EU plans to create an army. Barely three months on from the Referendum, Juncker has proposed an EU Army. I’m looking forward to Nick Clegg’s next apology video like the one he made after his last whopper.

We were told companies would leave the UK in their droves, especially in the car industry. There is no sign of this, and UK car manufacturing achieving its 12th successive month of growth in July, with production passing one million units in seven months for the first time in 12 years. Lie number 7.

David Cameron said he wouldn’t resign as Prime Minister if he lost the Referendum vote. Enough said.

The former Prime Minister also tried to claim the UK could manage its immigration policy while inside the EU. Why are ‘Remain’ campaigners insisting we start to control immigration in any Brexit deal then? Because we cannot control EU immigration now, proving Cameron was lying.

Universities wanted the UK to remain in the EU because leaving would result in Horizon 2020 funding disappearing. Our new Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has agreed to keep this funding in place. Lie number 10.

This is 10 of many lies spouted by the ‘Remain’ campaign during the EU referendum. It is about time us Brexiteers challenged this ridiculous narrative of leave lies and remain truths. We voted ‘Leave’ for control over the laws of this country, and the patronising suggestion we are gullible idiots is quite frankly ridiculous. Remain campaigners should look in the mirror if they want to find a liar”..........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

We have changed nothing. The EU is dominated by Germany and France and always has been. It is run and especially the Euro is run specifically for the benefit of Germany. The EU consists of 28/27 countries, there are another 160 odd in the world. The Eu economy is a dwindling percentage of world trade. It is displaying a culture of insularity and decline, not one of embracing the world and growth. We don’t need influence in the wider world, we already have it to a degree, we just need to be a good world player and trading nation based on the fact that we are a responsible, law abiding and trustful nation that applies the rule of law. We will not make our own rules, we will do what we always have, agree rules with partners and stick to the rules.......

That's your opinion Pete, and respectfully, it's massively ill-informed. I've been speaking with a lot of EU folk this week, and the UK has a huge influence on what they do. In industry alone, our research base is tremendously influential, as is our broad historic support of the free market, and both have been very influential in shaping how the EU has behaved in areas such as science and economic policy.

Likewise, your (repeated) comments about Germany are frankly bizarre. You're coming across like some Basil Fawlty character. Among the people I've met this week, maybe one or two are German, and not a single one thinks they're being dictated by Berlin or even run for the benefit of Berlin. Such a suggestion would strike them as utterly absurd, and it's hard not to conclude that you have absolutely no experience of EU workings, or interaction with people who are impacted by it, aside from what you read in the papers.

 

[Tubey]

That's your opinion Pete, and respectfully, it's massively ill-informed. I've been speaking with a lot of EU folk this week, and the UK has a huge influence on what they do. In industry alone, our research base is tremendously influential, as is our broad historic support of the free market, and both have been very influential in shaping how the EU has behaved in areas such as science and economic policy.

Likewise, your (repeated) comments about Germany are frankly bizarre. You're coming across like some Basil Fawlty character. Among the people I've met this week, maybe one or two are German, and not a single one thinks they're being dictated by Berlin or even run for the benefit of Berlin. Such a suggestion would strike them as utterly absurd, and it's hard not to conclude that you have absolutely no experience of EU workings, or interaction with people who are impacted by it, aside from what you read in the papers.

Not really even an opinion that either; the EU is/was scattered throughout with powerful roles held by British people and reflecting the British agenda. We've lost our side of an argument 2% of the time overall in the EU and won 95% of them. That tells half the story - not only do we win 95% of all decisions in the EU, we often set the policy agenda that gets voted upon too, and often shape the consensus that ultimately brings about major decisions in the EU.

To say "we have changed nothing" and we're grossly overpowered by Germany and France is a complete delusion that can't be backed up in any way, shape or form.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

FLHD: No further point...

No comeback.

That's fine mate

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Well, as you’re talking about lies......

“Recently, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker, blamed the Brexit vote on 40 years of lies and the lies of ‘Leave’ campaigners. Juncker is correct in one sense, there were many lies during the EU Referendum campaign, however these lies were from the ‘Remain’ side. The so-called lies from Leavers are a figment of the federalist’s imagination.

The UK gives the EU a gross contribution of £350 million a week. This is not a lie, and it is an amount which could be spent on the NHS if the UK Government so wished. These are usually touted as lies, but this stems from ‘Remain’ campaigners being unable to tell the difference between the words ‘gross’ and ‘net’ as well as the difference between the words ‘could’ and ‘will’.

In reality the lies came from the ‘Remain’ campaign.

European Council President Donald Tusk, said western political civilisation would be destroyed if the UK voted ‘Leave’. As I am sitting here writing this article, and as you are currently reading this, it is safe to say western political civilisation has not ended. Therefore, we must conclude this was a ‘Remain’ lie.

David Cameron implied in a speech about the “serried rows of white headstones” that World War 3 would be upon us if Brexit occurred. The last time I checked the UK had not invaded Poland or any other country, and therefore we must conclude this was a lie.

George Osborne predicted tax rises and spending cuts would be implemented. To date, no changes to the planned tax rates or public spending have been implemented. So, another lie, and thankfully after his sacking Osborne is no longer in a position create his ‘punishment budget’.

Despite Anna Soubry’s claim to the contrary on a recent Question Time appearance, Remainers did suggest there would be an immediate Brexit recession. No recession to date, in fact the OECD now believes the UK economy will grow 1.8% this year, up 0.1% on its pre-referendum estimate. Even Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, now admits he is “quietly optimistic” about Brexit. Lie number four.

3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs was the fictitious figure banded about. However, in July the claimant count fell by 8,600 to 763,600, despite an expected rise of 9,500. Another lie.

“A dangerous fantasy” is how Nick Clegg described Nigel Farage’s claim of EU plans to create an army. Barely three months on from the Referendum, Juncker has proposed an EU Army. I’m looking forward to Nick Clegg’s next apology video like the one he made after his last whopper.

We were told companies would leave the UK in their droves, especially in the car industry. There is no sign of this, and UK car manufacturing achieving its 12th successive month of growth in July, with production passing one million units in seven months for the first time in 12 years. Lie number 7.

David Cameron said he wouldn’t resign as Prime Minister if he lost the Referendum vote. Enough said.

The former Prime Minister also tried to claim the UK could manage its immigration policy while inside the EU. Why are ‘Remain’ campaigners insisting we start to control immigration in any Brexit deal then? Because we cannot control EU immigration now, proving Cameron was lying.

Universities wanted the UK to remain in the EU because leaving would result in Horizon 2020 funding disappearing. Our new Chancellor, Philip Hammond, has agreed to keep this funding in place. Lie number 10.

This is 10 of many lies spouted by the ‘Remain’ campaign during the EU referendum. It is about time us Brexiteers challenged this ridiculous narrative of leave lies and remain truths. We voted ‘Leave’ for control over the laws of this country, and the patronising suggestion we are gullible idiots is quite frankly ridiculous. Remain campaigners should look in the mirror if they want to find a liar”..........

What a jumbled crock of crap, no wonder you didn't reference the source.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Not really even an opinion that either; the EU is/was scattered throughout with powerful roles held by British people and reflecting the British agenda. We've lost our side of an argument 2% of the time overall in the EU and won 95% of them. That tells half the story - not only do we win 95% of all decisions in the EU, we often set the policy agenda that gets voted upon too, and often shape the consensus that ultimately brings about major decisions in the EU.

To say "we have changed nothing" and we're grossly overpowered by Germany and France is a complete delusion that can't be backed up in any way, shape or form.

Exactly, it's just a misguided narrative, that suits a misguided agenda.

Ever noticed how many leave voters reference the War?

 

[joey_macmo]

What a jumbled crock of crap, no wonder you didn't reference the source.

I'll give you a clue, its over 12 months old. Bad day to be referencing The OECD to back up brexit isn't it.

 

[peteblue]

That's your opinion Pete, and respectfully, it's massively ill-informed. I've been speaking with a lot of EU folk this week, and the UK has a huge influence on what they do. In industry alone, our research base is tremendously influential, as is our broad historic support of the free market, and both have been very influential in shaping how the EU has behaved in areas such as science and economic policy.

Likewise, your (repeated) comments about Germany are frankly bizarre. You're coming across like some Basil Fawlty character. Among the people I've met this week, maybe one or two are German, and not a single one thinks they're being dictated by Berlin or even run for the benefit of Berlin. Such a suggestion would strike them as utterly absurd, and it's hard not to conclude that you have absolutely no experience of EU workings, or interaction with people who are impacted by it, aside from what you read in the papers.

Well, I spent about 40 years working with companies and people across Europe in Germany, Spain, Italy etc, less so dealing with East Europeans, so I do have a little experience and knowledge. I also found that my views hit a chord with many in regards to the Euro and who the main beneficiary was. The issues/ solutions raised during the banking crisis for Greece, Ireland, etc were effectively dictated by Germany and specifically by Wolfgang Schäuble who led the EU finance ministers group. The U.K. did indeed head up the odd ministry but if you look at EU staffing, the nations of Belgium, France, Germany, Italy and Spain have 2,3,4 or even 5 times of their nationals working there as opposed to the UK, even Romania has more than the U.K...... If you really believe that Germany and France do not effectively dictate EU policy then you are naive......

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

If you really believe that Germany and France do not effectively dictate EU policy then you are naive......

Give a tangible example of this supposed definitive fact and how it negatively impacted on the UK?

 

[peteblue]

Give a tangible example of this supposed definitive fact and how it negatively impacted on the UK?

“.......Dyson previously campaigned for vacuum cleaners to be limited 700 watts of power because it was convinced its devices were more efficient and did not need the more powerful motors used by rivals.

Sir James even used the point to argue for Britain leaving the EU, saying he was outvoted by German vacuum cleaner manufacturers, many of whom make products with large motors that use bags, and therefore lose suction when loaded with dust.

“Washing machines are tested with washing in them, cars are tested with people in them, and fridges are tested with food in them. But when it came to our request to test vacuum cleaners with dust in them, the big German block of manufacturers complained,” said Sir James.

“If German companies go on dominating European legislation, that’s a very good reason not to be in Europe. If they’re not going to listen to us, we shouldn’t be in there.”

A spokesman for Bosch declined to comment.”......

 

[bobbydigital]

Despite Anna Soubry’s claim to the contrary on a recent Question Time appearance, Remainers did suggest there would be an immediate Brexit recession. No recession to date, in fact the OECD now believes the UK economy will grow 1.8% this year, up 0.1% on its pre-referendum estimate. Even Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England, now admits he is “quietly optimistic” about Brexit. Lie number four.

Are you sure that is what the OECD believes?

Reverse Brexit with second referendum to save your economy, OECD tells UK

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...se-uk-europe-theresa-may-latest-a8004676.html

Let me guess, between the time you quoted them 2 hours ago and now they have become liars?