Current Affairs EU In or Out

[SteveSC]

So what is the point of the original claim that ‘we can change things from the inside’ we can’t, and never have......

But they have. Overall the EU has changed and effected change. Every country gets a votes on everything that gets put forth and the majority decides.

As people have pointed out there have literally been thousands of different votes on different things that have shaped the EU.

What because Britain can't directly lay claim to nay of it its rubbish?

Like i said what changes do you know off Britain tried to put forth themselves and lost on?

Oh come on Pete seriously

 

[Fedlingen]

Wenn wir geblieben wären, würde ich jetzt Deutschunterricht nehmen..............apologies in advance....

A bit of delightful wumming.

And nothing wrong in learning more languages, it broadens ones horizon. More people to share a beer with.

 

[peteblue]

A bit of delightful wumming.

And nothing wrong in learning more languages, it broadens ones horizon. More people to share a beer with.

.......

 

[peteblue]

But they have. Overall the EU has changed and effected change. Every country gets a votes on everything that gets put forth and the majority decides.

As people have pointed out there have literally been thousands of different votes on different things that have shaped the EU.

What because Britain can't directly lay claim to nay of it its rubbish?

Like i said what changes do you know off Britain tried to put forth themselves and lost on?

Oh come on Pete seriously

Did you actually see what ‘changes or concessions’ David Cameron won when his back was against the wall and the U.K. was threatening to leave........

 

[SteveSC]

Did you actually see what ‘changes or concessions’ David Cameron won when his back was against the wall and the U.K. was threatening to leave........

Yes we all know his failures but i'm not sure how that answers me?

You just responding with vague references. Britain already had a strained relationship at this point and he goes demanding stuff and gets shot down.

But we were talking about the last 40 years not the last 2

 

[peteblue]

Yes we all know his failures but i'm not sure how that answers me?

You just responding with vague references. Britain already had a strained relationship at this point and he goes demanding stuff and gets shot down.

But we were talking about the last 40 years not the last 2

That’s right, the last 40 years, so surely you can tell me 3 things where we have changed the EEC/EU direction......

 

[Harryflashman]

Personally, I don't like Boris. I think he has bumbled into politics as something to do, from his very privileged background.

About the £350 million. I know that is a gross figure. I know that before anything goes across to the EU, there are rebates to be taken off that figure. I understand (although I cannot be certain on this, it is just what others have said, so I stand to be corrected) that we have no say in how that rebate is deployed in the UK, either fully or partially. From what I understand will be the final scenario when we are totally free of the EU and reach the point where no further payments of any kind are made, what was £350 million gross, however much net, then becomes £350 million gross for the UK Government to deploy. That is what I THINK he is alluding to. I believe, as you say, that quite a few obviously took note of the £350 million figure - I did, but then looked into what it meant exactly vis-a-vis the present financial scenario and the future scenario, as I have just outlined in my previous sentences in this paragraph.

Your last paragraph, yes I agree there are/will be financial concerns. But what continues to scare the crap out of me (and I suspect many others) is that the so-called financial experts have got things wrong time and time and time again - even the top man in the Bank of England has got things wrong since the vote! (now that DOES scare me if they are the ones holding the purse strings). We don't ignore evidence (and I submit that applies to both Leavers and Remainers), but we have to question it in the style of devil's advocate to see if it stands up to close scrutiny. So Leavers do have financial concerns also. From the moment I got married I have wrestled with financial concerns, the peaks and troughs, and come through (and so has 'er indoors!).

The term 'taking control' doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'll take control of my car when the last payment is made. Until then, a third party has a real stake in it. Same with the £350 Million. The UK will take control of it fully when all financial ties (with respect to that sum) are severed from the EU.

I hope this explains myself a bit better...

I don’t think for a second that £350m written on the side of a bus influenced your vote mate but my point was it probably influenced a few and Boris knew that and that makes his comment even more Ill advised but almost certainly calculated.

 

[SteveSC]

That’s right, the last 40 years, so surely you can tell me 3 things where we have changed the EEC/EU direction......

Oh ffs nor have you answered my question on what was put forth by Britain to affect change suiting their agenda see how this works pete?

Or are you happy to accdept that for 38 years Britain for the most part has agreed with the direction of the EU

 

[peteblue]

I don’t think for a second that £350m written on the side of a bus influenced your vote mate but my point was it probably influenced a few and Boris knew that and that makes his comment even more Ill advised but almost certainly calculated.

Boris is probably the most intelligent politician we have, wrapped up in a cloak of imbecility.....he almost certainly changed the course of our history, for the better obviously, while taking some humongous personal flak.....one day his actions will be applauded, or completely denigrated, we just have to see how it goes......

 

[Harryflashman]

Boris is probably the most intelligent politician we have, wrapped up in a cloak of imbecility.....he almost certainly changed the course of our history, for the better obviously, while taking some humongous personal flak.....one day his actions will be applauded, or completely denigrated, we just have to see how it goes......

I think he’s intelligent but personally I’ve no time for the man and his faux buffoonery , I don’t like liars and he’s done it repeatedly including in print . The Sonia purnell biography is an interesting read .

 

[peteblue]

“The EU-27 is to make a gesture but also toughen its language towards the UK ahead of the EU summit later this week, as British prime minister Theresa May makes a final plea at a dinner on Monday night in Brussels to begin trade talks.

The EU-27 are still signalling that internal preparations for talks on the future and trade with the UK will begin, according to a draft seen by EUobserver.

EU leaders are also expected to say that they will update the negotiating guidelines at their December summit if sufficient progress is achieved by then on key issues.

Germany and France earlier wanted to tone down that language, to avoid the impression that negotiating guidelines would be automatically updated in December, EU officials familiar with the talks among member states said.

To reflect German-French concerns the new draft version scrapped the reference to internal preparations needed "to be fully ready" for December's second phase talks.

The latest version of the draft conclusions, to be discussed by EU affairs ministers on Tuesday (17 October) says that "in December, the European Council will reassess the state of progress in the negotiations with a view to determining whether sufficient progress has been achieved on each of the three above issues. If so, it will adopt additional guidelines in relation to the framework for the future relationship and on possible transitional arrangements […]."

Leaders also say EU negotiator Michel Barnier and member states should start "internal preparatory discussions" on these issues.

EU leaders are nevertheless expected to state at their summit later this week that Brexit talks have not reached sufficient progress on citizens' rights, the borders of Ireland and financial settlement, therefore discussions cannot move onto their second phase.”

I think that’s pretty well politik speak for the EU refuses to accommodate the U.K. but we will begin trade negotiations without either side losing face........but we shall see.........

 

[Fedlingen]

That’s right, the last 40 years, so surely you can tell me 3 things where we have changed the EEC/EU direction......

I mentioned three quite positive things, not more than one page ago Pete.

I even chose to focus on subjects that should be quite neutral to everyone on here.

And you have to remember that up until recently, it wasn't the representative objective of the British MEP's and/or British Ministers in the European Council to do something drastically, regarding changes to the EU. They were doing their job and what was asked of them through their representation.

With Brexit, this of course changed quite a bit.

 

[Ron Swanson]

That’s right, the last 40 years, so surely you can tell me 3 things where we have changed the EEC/EU direction......

You're being wilfully obtuse. You surely understand the structure of the EU? There's this ridiculous notion of 'Brussels' being some kind of shady dictatorial autocracy that tells us what to do when in actuality we are among the instigators of EU law as part of the EU commission - and by all accounts, a chief influencer.

We can affect change in the EU by being in it. Our position in the EU commission allows us to recommend laws and directives. Our 72 MEPs can help vote through legislation in our favour. Almost 2500 times in the last 40 years, the UK has helped steer the EU/EEC in a direction that our elected representatives felt was good for our country. Even then, the 56 times we voted against the legislation, doesn't mean the legislation wasn't subsequently amended to appease the UK grievances. And in cases of our abstentions, they have generally because they didn't concern us - eg. matters related to Schengen or common currency. There is also the matter of the UK disagreeing with the UK - MEPs from different parties/parts of the UK not siding with the government on EU legislation.

We had a veto over matters like EU membership - remember the lie that leave campaigners told about Turkey, well we could've vetoed their membership in the highly unlikely event of it being on the table in the next two decades. We also could've vetoed any attempt to create an EU army, another Leave scare tactic.

Outside of the EU we have no voice in how the EU conducts its affairs. No veto over them amassing an army. No chance to vote down laws or directives or regulations, or propose and push through those we feel would benefit us. And unless the UK plans to not do business with the EU, we will still be beholden to many of these regulations in order to trade.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I don’t think for a second that £350m written on the side of a bus influenced your vote mate but my point was it probably influenced a few and Boris knew that and that makes his comment even more Ill advised but almost certainly calculated.

I can't disagree with that, Harry.

But the other side of the coin might be: how many were scared into voting Remain due to Osbourne threatening a swingeing budget on the lower class if the vote was to leave.

The point I make, Harry, is that there were/are odious people on both sides...

 

[Harryflashman]

I can't disagree with that, Harry.

But the other side of the coin might be: how many were scared into voting Remain due to Osbourne threatening a swingeing budget on the lower class if the vote was to leave.

The point I make, Harry, is that there were/are odious people on both sides...

Again I don’t hugely disagree but my initial point was about Boris recycling those numbers again and using ‘clever’ wordplay by saying we’d ‘‘take control “ of that £350m that’s disingenuous and doesn’t help the debate. it’s exactly the kind of thing that annoys me as a leaver because you and many other remainders might be well informed but people can be deceived by that and to continue dishonesty isn’t helpful .

Then again we shouldn’t be surprised He plays fast and loose with the truth the man is a liar, whose been sacked twice for lying the fact that he lies shouldn’t surprise me or anybody else.