Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Old Blue 2]

Pardon me for quoting the words of the man who lead the Leave campaign and watched the poll trends daily and came to that conclusion. I've quoted his comments to you before, but you've seemingly forgotten, so here's a reminder;

Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. Even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No.

That is one man's opinion, FLHD. Nothing more. How can he possibly claim to speak to 17+ million people of the UK? Why do you possibly hang your hat on the words of ONE man?

It really is becoming ridiculous! Whoops, more straws floating by on the wind...

 

[SteveSC]

That is one man's opinion, FLHD. Nothing more. How can he possibly claim to speak to 17+ million people of the UK? Why do you possibly hang your hat on the words of ONE man?

It really is becoming ridiculous! Whoops, more straws floating by on the wind...

Wasn't there a ton of news articles with reaction from people in varied media outlets including polls suggesting that a good chunk of the people that voted regretted it and said that they felt lied to?

Even more recent some more brexit voters are p*ssed at the lack of planning and how much of a debacle its turning into. I could swear i read that in several sources recently.

Do you think if there was another vote it would be the exact same? Honestly?

 

[Harryflashman]

Wasn't there a ton of news articles with reaction from people in varied media outlets including polls suggesting that a good chunk of the people that voted regretted it and said that they felt lied to?

Even more recent some more brexit voters are p*ssed at the lack of planning and how much of a debacle its turning into. I could swear i read that in several sources recently.

Do you think if there was another vote it would be the exact same? Honestly?

I’m a remainer but I think we could well get a fairly similar vote if I’m honest , a lot of people who voted leave are committed to voting leave whatever the circumstances. We’ve seen a poster here happily say he’d be prepared to take a 8% hit to gdp to facilitate exit .

I think there is obviously a cross section of people who voted leave but I believe a fair proportion would vote leave again whatever and I mean pretty much whatever the economic consequences.

Obviously we could see a shift and it wouldn’t take much to swing the vote but I’d suspect , like a trump reelection vote , it wouldn’t be as close as many of us would think or hope .

 

[SteveSC]

I’m a remainer but I think we could well get a fairly similar vote if I’m honest , people who voted leave are committed to voting leave whatever the circumstances. We’ve seen a poster here happily say he’d be prepared to take a 8% hit to gdp to facilitate exit .

I think there is obviously a cross section of people who voted leave but I believe a fair proportion would vote leave again whatever and I mean pretty much whatever the economic consequences.

Good point. You are probably right too. I was just interested to know.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Wasn't there a ton of news articles with reaction from people in varied media outlets including polls suggesting that a good chunk of the people that voted regretted it and said that they felt lied to?

Even more recent some more brexit voters are p*ssed at the lack of planning and how much of a debacle its turning into. I could swear i read that in several sources recently.

Do you think if there was another vote it would be the exact same? Honestly?

Individual views, straw polls, not worth a carrot in the overall scheme of things. Modern society is fixated on the outpouring of the media: 'Well, so-and-so said so on the telly, so it must be right!'.

And the Remain camp never lied? Don't make me laugh! Osbourne for starters. Biggest liar of the lot! But hey, he was on the side or Remain, so let's say nothing about his conduct, and his words in the run-in to the vote.

People are p*ssed off at the attitude of the EU negotiators - there, that's every bit as valid as your words in the second sentence!

Do YOU think if there was another vote that MORE people would vote to stay in that organisation, now they have seen how they are SUPPOSEDLY trying to conduct negotiations with the UK? Honestly???

Straws, straws, floating by... Clutch, clutch, clutch...

 

[SteveSC]

Individual views, straw polls, not worth a carrot in the overall scheme of things. Modern society is fixated on the outpouring of the media: 'Well, so-and-so said so on the telly, so it must be right!'.

And the Remain camp never lied? Don't make me laugh! Osbourne for starters. Biggest liar of the lot! But hey, he was on the side or Remain, so let's say nothing about his conduct, and his words in the run-in to the vote.

People are p*ssed off at the attitude of the EU negotiators - there, that's every bit as valid as your words in the second sentence!

Do YOU think if there was another vote that MORE people would vote to stay in that organisation, now they have seen how they are SUPPOSEDLY trying to conduct negotiations with the UK? Honestly???

Straws, straws, floating by... Clutch, clutch, clutch...

Calm down would you. Why get so defensive? I was simply asking.

I do not care about brexit, as i have said many times, if Britain wants to make its own mistakes its welcome to. As long as it deals with NI properly.

I was just interested to know as a friendly debate topic perhaps do people think it might be different which of course given the fact the whole debacle of late and the supposed lies. Actually @Harryflashman answered honestly.

 

[peteblue]

What's funny about this?
He's right

We’ve had over 40 years to change it from within, nothing, zero, zilch......

 

[peteblue]

The £350 NHS slogan was just a blatant lie, as the maths didn't add up.

A fact that the Leave campaign knew and yet still ploughed on with it, their own research showed that it was the decisive factor in the result, as confirmed by the Director of Leave Dominic Cummings. Why do you find this too difficult to digest?

Haven’t seen this much anger directed towards Corbyn an his free tuition etc etc.......

 

[Fedlingen]

We’ve had over 40 years to change it from within, nothing, zero, zilch......

To believe that elected officials have changed nothing regarding the EU over the last forty years is just downright stupid.

Politicians have acted according to the grounds they were elected on. You can't just dismiss the work they've done as nothing. You may feel free to disagree with their work, but up until recently the stance towards the EU was more positive than negative in the UK.

Haven’t seen this much anger directed towards Corbyn an his free tuition etc etc.......

You haven't been paying attention then, and this is an EU-thread.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Calm down would you. Why get so defensive? I was simply asking.

I do not care about brexit, as i have said many times, if Britain wants to make its own mistakes its welcome to. As long as it deals with NI properly.

I was just interested to know as a friendly debate topic perhaps do people think it might be different which of course given the fact the whole debacle of late and the supposed lies. Actually @Harryflashman answered honestly.

What you have to understand is that both sides told fibs. But it appears those on here who voted Remain continually lob accusations/quotes/polls at those who voted Leave. And the false platitudes need to be corrected. This has gone on in this thread now since June last year, and it's still the same old, same old, same old. It gets boring and is repetitive, and ultimately, becomes an insult to those who voted Leave, as it paints us as people who didn't have a clue about the referendum issues, who don't have a clue now, and who won't have a clue in the future.

I want to see people put forward logical premises, which in fact is difficult for both sides at present as the way forward is still unclear. Yet the Remain voters are continually the harbingers of doom.

I want to have a reasoned discussion, but how can that be, when in recent pages some say that the £350 million per week was a commitment to be carried it out come what may. That is not a logical premise, nor reasonable discussion, for the reason (which I have stated MANY times) that the referendum was cross-party without being able to give ANY commitment to future policy whatsoever. Yet some people on here STILL hammer on about it being a commitment and a lie when it was a comparison.

Is it any wonder, then, that those who voted Leave have to reply defensively so often. What we ALL want is to see the UK emerge from the break with the EU in a decent, healthy, position with everything in place. Will not happen overnight, cos life ain't like that, but we must strive to get there (a bit like Everton at the moment!).

 

[roydo]

Yet the Remain voters are continually the harbingers of doom.

And the Leave voters simply wont accept that things just might not work out all fine and dandy.

The rest of your post, generally agree with, esp the last paragraph. Lets hope it is ok. Just seemed a daft gamble to take imo.

 

[Harryflashman]

What you have to understand is that both sides told fibs. But it appears those on here who voted Remain continually lob accusations/quotes/polls at those who voted Leave. And the false platitudes need to be corrected. This has gone on in this thread now since June last year, and it's still the same old, same old, same old. It gets boring and is repetitive, and ultimately, becomes an insult to those who voted Leave, as it paints us as people who didn't have a clue about the referendum issues, who don't have a clue now, and who won't have a clue in the future.

I want to see people put forward logical premises, which in fact is difficult for both sides at present as the way forward is still unclear. Yet the Remain voters are continually the harbingers of doom.

I want to have a reasoned discussion, but how can that be, when in recent pages some say that the £350 million per week was a commitment to be carried it out come what may. That is not a logical premise, nor reasonable discussion, for the reason (which I have stated MANY times) that the referendum was cross-party without being able to give ANY commitment to future policy whatsoever. Yet some people on here STILL hammer on about it being a commitment and a lie when it was a comparison.

Is it any wonder, then, that those who voted Leave have to reply defensively so often. What we ALL want is to see the UK emerge from the break with the EU in a decent, healthy, position with everything in place. Will not happen overnight, cos life ain't like that, but we must strive to get there (a bit like Everton at the moment!).

It doesn’t help though does it when Boris talks about ‘taking control’ of the £350m only last month and let’s be candid he knows exactly what he’s doing . I’m not suggesting leave voters are stupid at all but that’s a comment meant to reasonate with those that wrongly focused on the £350m figure .

I completely accept that the referendum was democracy in action , I may disagree with the result but if you believe in democracy you have to accept the result and I’ll also accept absolutely that both sides lied during the campaign . My point is that when a prominent leaver like Boris throws the £350m figure into conversation it has a purpose .

I’d hope , in fact I’m sure , we can agree that a least a fair number of people focused on the £350m figure . I’m not suggesting it was instrumental and regardless that’s irrelevant. My point is that knowing how it resonated and how controversial it was the fact that the foreign secretary mentioned ‘taking control’ was a statement that was less than helpful.

I think overall your points are fair , obviously though many those of us who wanted to remain feel the evidence points towards serious financial concerns and feel we’re entitled to raise those concerns whilst we believe many leavers feel prepared to ignore all evidence to this effect .

 

[Ruairi77]

We’ve had over 40 years to change it from within, nothing, zero, zilch......

I'm not going to dig through records but I find that hard to believe. Ireland has changed the EU, I doubt the UK hasn't.

 

[Ruairi77]

Haven’t seen this much anger directed towards Corbyn an his free tuition etc etc.......

I must have missed the bit where Corbyn became PM

 

[peteblue]

It doesn’t help though does it when Boris talks about ‘taking control’ of the £350m only last month and let’s be candid he knows exactly what he’s doing . I’m not suggesting leave voters are stupid at all but that’s a comment meant to reasonate with those that wrongly focused on the £350m figure .

I completely accept that the referendum was democracy in action , I may disagree with the result but if you believe in democracy you have to accept the result and I’ll also accept absolutely that both sides lied during the campaign . My point is that when a prominent leaver like Boris throws the £350m figure into conversation it has a purpose .

I’d hope , in fact I’m sure , we can agree that a least a fair number of people focused on the £350m figure . I’m not suggesting it was instrumental and regardless that’s irrelevant. My point is that knowing how it resonated and how controversial it was the fact that the foreign secretary mentioned ‘taking control’ was a statement that was less than helpful.

I think overall your points are fair , obviously though many those of us who wanted to remain feel the evidence points towards serious financial concerns and feel we’re entitled to raise those concerns whilst we believe many leavers feel prepared to ignore all evidence to this effect .

There may well be financial concerns and there may well be financial issues as a result of Brexit. But all changes to a business or economy or even a football team can result in short term changes, either good or bad. The issue though is can we take advantage of the opportunities that will now present themselves. We hear so much negativity, such as we might not be able to fly into the EU, even though every other country on the planet does, that Leavers feel obliged to defend their position when actually there is no need. There will be a short term change, again it could be positive or negative, but long term if we behave correctly we will all do well.......