Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
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edge said:
Looking like a no in Italy , wonder if he will resign?
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He's a goner. However Italy has been one screwed up nation for what seems like a eternity, even predating Mussolini. Their general attitude stinks and is more or less a feudal system. This decision just reinforces the status quo which has seen them on the road to ruin.
 
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I'm not sure how much we can read EU-wise into the Italy referendum. If passed it would have effectively killed the Upper House, and given the central government far more power over regional government - for Americans, almost like killing the Senate and State Governors in a single blow. These are sweeping changes and bound to be controversial in any political context, not least in a country where the consequences of facism are still just about in living memory. The political class would have regretted it forever if Beppe Grillo actually ever won. It looks like their first move now will be the change the electoral law to stop it from happening. I guess the question now is "what happens to the banks?"
 
peteblue said:
You can read it all on here tbh. The only argument that the remainers have put up is an economic case... This for me shows the paucity of their ambition........
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If you ask me, it's more to do with the fact that the economic argument is extremely one sided and the one that most people who are pro-Brexit are willing to accept/note that it will affect them negatively. For example, I could try to make the argument to you about attempting to retain Britain's status as a real leader of European politics, setting the agenda for the rest of the continent, how the European Union and free movement laws will give your relatives the best opportunity to see the beautiful cities of Europe, or even the development of an identity as a European and not just a Briton that I personally feel. The thing is tho most of these are a little bit built on rhetoric and opinion where if you end up making a stronger case, people can just go 'well i'm allowed my own opinion and that's that' and shut down the debate. The economic side meanwhile is pretty, pretty one sided.

peteblue said:
I like the idea of my granddaughter not being involved in a war and with a world view not centralised on a German controlled Europe. Even if we gave up the EU completely, which we won't , it's still only 10% or so of our GDP......it's not a financial Armageddon ......,
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Also thought I'd make small mention to your fears about EU-Russo relations, and correct me if I'm wrong but I think you're saying you fear being involved with an EU that is antagonising Russia? I actually kind of agree with you, and I am quite sympathetic to Russia (for example I think they were actually right to take back Crimea on a fundamental law, even if doing it through annexation was wrong) but having a strong union of Western European nations to keep Russia in check is by no means a bad thing, thinking along the lines of 'mutually assured destruction'. This is because a strong EU will discourage Russia from advancing territorially westwards, something I have no doubt that Putin would do if he felt it would quell domestic unrest by spiking patriotism, and was able to do so. Leaving the EU only serves as a body blow to the union keeping Russia in check, and interestingly, keeping the peace.
 
Farage, the gurning saloon bar bore*, is actually one of the people being blamed by the far right for their defeat in the Austrian referendum:
Anton Mahdalik, a Freedom party member of the Vienna city council, criticised former Ukip leader Nigel Farage for contributing to the party’s defeat after claiming on Fox News that Hofer would hold a referendum on Austria leaving the EU. “That didn’t help us, it hindered us,” he said, saying that an overwhelming majority of Austrians support EU membership.

Hofer himself described Farage’s comments as a “crass misjudgment”, adding that “it doesn’t fill me with joy when someone meddles from outside”.
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*Tbf, he was accurate in what he said. Hofer would have done his utmost to get Austria out of the EU, despite his backtracking on previous statements in the campaign.
 
atrottel said:
Farage, the gurning saloon bar bore*, is actually one of the people being blamed by the far right for their defeat in the Austrian referendum:

*Tbf, he was accurate in what he said. Hofer would have done his utmost to get Austria out of the EU, despite his backtracking on previous statements in the campaign.
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Hofer's defeat is at least a glimmer of hope in what has been a pretty dire year.
 
I cant see the Euro and EU surviving ultimately. Holding together disparate economies as it gets bigger and bigger combined with the increasing shakiness of the banking systems will make it very difficult.

There again the US is surviving as a union so I could be completely wrong!
 
atrottel said:
Farage, the gurning saloon bar bore*, is actually one of the people being blamed by the far right for their defeat in the Austrian referendum:

*Tbf, he was accurate in what he said. Hofer would have done his utmost to get Austria out of the EU, despite his backtracking on previous statements in the campaign.
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How are they "far right"? Just curious.
 
Eadie rather delightfully getting a hard time by the Supreme Court - seems like a stuttering start to the Government's case.
 
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