Donald Trump for President Thread

[tsubaki]

That doesn't sound very scientific.

Then here are some stats for you. In 2015 alone 40,896 people were removed or left voluntarily after proceedings were initiated to remove them; just over one in ten were people convicted of offences.

 

[magicjuan]

we need some politicians to emerge to give us hope, where/who are they?

Truth is we don't need politicians. Their greatest power is convincing us we do.

 

[The Cowboy]

You're four times more likely to be struck by lightning than be killed by a terrorist. I don't see people crapping themselves every time they hear thunder though.

Lightning isn't actually intending to kill you though. Or are weather systems being radicalized now?

 

[degsy]

the below top-rated Guardian comment tells us exactly why Trump won, aimed at mainstream liberal media and their echo chambers.

note: i was put on Guardian pre-mod for about 2 years for saying much the same things.


---------------
"This could have ALL been avoided. How to stop Trump:

1. STOP, for the LOVE of GOD, STOP peddling identity politics. Trump voters - working class people - despise it. They know what you're doing - it's obvious.

2. STOP treating ethnicity, gender, sexuality and religion as a proxy for class warfare; you are trying to displace them by creating a new under-class and stoking ethnocentrism, gynocentrism and tribalism for the purpose of manufacturing a new electorate and a globalised, supranational governance that NO-ONE wants.

3. STOP speaking about groups, start speaking about individuals (you know, actual liberalism).

4. Stop polarising ALL debate. Just because you aren't rabidly pro-feminism, it doesn't make you a misogynist. Just because you aren't rabidly in favour of the EU, it doesn't make you a fascist. Just because you don't support black lives matter, it doesn't make you a white supremacist. Just because you don't support SSM, it doesn't make you a homophobe.

5. Stop pushing mass immigration for the purposes of creating a new electorate. They know what you're doing. Every minority group in the UK is opposed to mass immigration. Even Hispanics are opposed to mass immigration, and are more conservative - on a policy basis - and religious than white males.

6. Stop preaching cultural relativism; if you oppose something for one identity, oppose it for ALL identities. Murder doesn't suddenly become more acceptable because the perpetrator is Islamic; sexism doesn't become more acceptable because the perpetrator is female; racism doesn't become more acceptable because the hatred is being spewed at white men.

Get it? Until all of this STOPS, until we start to assign rights and responsibilities at the level of the individual and not the group, until all of the incessant shaming, self-loathing and guilt-tripping subsides, this will get infinitely worse."
---------------

True.

 

[davek]

I'd actually like Trump to win. He's a narcissist, a racist and an all-round scumbag...but so is Clinton and all the rest of them. And just maybe it'd cool down relations with Russia, and that's what is needed.

Besides that, it'll be another slap in the chops of the neo-con politicians and media who do the bidding of huge corporations and the financial institutions they're in cahoots with. I hope Americans wake up tomorrow with the bombshell moment we did when our political and media overlords failed to threaten and cajole enough sheep into backing their Euro referendum campaign.

*cough*

...and dont the media now look suitably out of touch again today...and their corrupt pollsters trying to influence events?

The western corporate controlled media are in disarray. Chalk another victory up for the people.

 

[TheFinnFan]

Politics aside I'm surprised you want to see a more dominant and aggressive Putin which is the likely result of last night.

This result will very likely mean that Finland and Sweden will close on military issues. Ive been in favour of that alliance for some time now and it has been discussed in our medias some time now. But I know what you mean...theres some risks in this.

 

[The Cowboy]

Well, there are typically around 10-15 cycling fatalities in London per year, or 113 in Britain as a whole, with a proportionally higher chance of some kind of injury. That compares to the solitary murder of Lee Rigby this decade.

Wow. So obtuse. Are you serious with this, Bruce?

 

[degsy]

Feel for the losing voters, I can sympathise, I don't think I've ever been on the winning side of an election since I've been of legal voting age

I mean, I technically "won" in 2010 as I voted Lib Dem, but it sure didn't feel like a win

you deserved to lose them all just for the lib-dem thing

 

[orly]

Feel free to elaborate.

Put it simply, you've been very very naive

 

[davek]

the below top-rated Guardian comment tells us exactly why Trump won, aimed at mainstream liberal media and their echo chambers.

note: i was put on Guardian pre-mod for about 2 years for saying much the same things.


---------------
"This could have ALL been avoided. How to stop Trump:

1. STOP, for the LOVE of GOD, STOP peddling identity politics. Trump voters - working class people - despise it. They know what you're doing - it's obvious.

2. STOP treating ethnicity, gender, sexuality and religion as a proxy for class warfare; you are trying to displace them by creating a new under-class and stoking ethnocentrism, gynocentrism and tribalism for the purpose of manufacturing a new electorate and a globalised, supranational governance that NO-ONE wants.

3. STOP speaking about groups, start speaking about individuals (you know, actual liberalism).

4. Stop polarising ALL debate. Just because you aren't rabidly pro-feminism, it doesn't make you a misogynist. Just because you aren't rabidly in favour of the EU, it doesn't make you a fascist. Just because you don't support black lives matter, it doesn't make you a white supremacist. Just because you don't support SSM, it doesn't make you a homophobe.

5. Stop pushing mass immigration for the purposes of creating a new electorate. They know what you're doing. Every minority group in the UK is opposed to mass immigration. Even Hispanics are opposed to mass immigration, and are more conservative - on a policy basis - and religious than white males.

6. Stop preaching cultural relativism; if you oppose something for one identity, oppose it for ALL identities. Murder doesn't suddenly become more acceptable because the perpetrator is Islamic; sexism doesn't become more acceptable because the perpetrator is female; racism doesn't become more acceptable because the hatred is being spewed at white men.

Get it? Until all of this STOPS, until we start to assign rights and responsibilities at the level of the individual and not the group, until all of the incessant shaming, self-loathing and guilt-tripping subsides, this will get infinitely worse."
---------------

Spot on that. Identity politics - emphasising unity on some ridiculously flimsy basis - is no substitute for class politics.

Brexit and Trump are working class communities rejecting the lies and deceit covering up for a system screwing them relentlessly into the ground. That neo-liberal party is over now. The Labour Party membership implicitly knew it and chose Corbyn, the disaffected ex-Labour strongholds in Britain knew it was coming and sided with Ukip, the American working class know it and put Trump (warts an' all...massive warts 'an all) into the White House.

The jig is up for this crooked system. The only thing to choose now is whether the route forward is collectivism or barbarianism....the weakness of socialist politics across the globe, I'm afraid, suggests it may well be the latter.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Then here are some stats for you. In 2015 alone 40,896 people were removed or left voluntarily after proceedings were initiated to remove them; just over one in ten were people convicted of offences.

Interesting thank you. It's interesting that of the forced removals, just 18% were EU citizens, with the majority being due to overstaying visas and so on rather than doing anything dastardly.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Spot on that. Identity politics - emphasising unity on some ridiculously flimsy basis - is no substitute for class politics.

Brexit and Trump was working class communities rejecting the lies and deceit covering up for a system screwing them relentlessly into the ground. That neo-liberal party is over now. The Labour Party membership implicitly knew it and chose Corbyn, the disaffected ex-Labour strongholds in Britain knew it was coming and sided with Ukip, the Amerrican working class know it and put Trump (warts an' all...massive warts 'an all) in to the White House.

The jig is up for crooked system. The only thing to choose now is whether the route forward is collectivism or barbarianism....the weakness of socialist politics across the globe, I'm afraid, suggests it may well be the latter.

How has it been doing that Dave?

 

[tsubaki]

Thomas Frank - who to be fair has been more right than the rest of the Guardian hacks on this (though that isn't that hard) - hits the nail on the head, repeatedly:

Clinton’s supporters among the media didn’t help much, either. It always struck me as strange that such an unpopular candidate enjoyed such robust and unanimous endorsements from the editorial and opinion pages of the nation’s papers, but it was the quality of the media’s enthusiasm that really harmed her. With the same arguments repeated over and over, two or three times a day, with nuance and contrary views all deleted, the act of opening the newspaper started to feel like tuning in to a Cold War propaganda station. Here’s what it consisted of:

• Hillary was virtually without flaws. She was a peerless leader clad in saintly white, a super-lawyer, a caring benefactor of women and children, a warrior for social justice.
  
• Her scandals weren’t real.
  
• The economy was doing well / America was already great.
  
• Working-class people weren’t supporting Trump.
  
• And if they were, it was only because they were botched humans. Racism was the only conceivable reason for lining up with the Republican candidate.

How did the journalists’ crusade fail? The fourth estate came together in an unprecedented professional consensus. They chose insulting the other side over trying to understand what motivated them. They transformed opinion writing into a vehicle for high moral boasting. What could possibly have gone wrong with such an approach?

Put this question in slightly more general terms and you are confronting the single great mystery of 2016. The American white-collar class just spent the year rallying around a super-competent professional (who really wasn’t all that competent) and either insulting or silencing everyone who didn’t accept their assessment. And then they lost. Maybe it’s time to consider whether there’s something about shrill self-righteousness, shouted from a position of high social status, that turns people away.

The even larger problem is that there is a kind of chronic complacency that has been rotting American liberalism for years, a hubris that tells Democrats they need do nothing different, they need deliver nothing really to anyone – except their friends on the Google jet and those nice people at Goldman. The rest of us are treated as though we have nowhere else to go and no role to play except to vote enthusiastically on the grounds that these Democrats are the “last thing standing” between us and the end of the world. It is a liberalism of the rich, it has failed the middle class, and now it has failed on its own terms of electability. Enough with these comfortable Democrats and their cozy Washington system. Enough with Clintonism and its prideful air of professional-class virtue. Enough!

 

[Boss_Blue]

Oh my.

So many sides to choose from that I don't know which one to take.

*pulls up chair

 

[Harryflashman]

*cough*

...and ont the media now look suitably out of touch again today...and their corrupt pollsters trying to influence events?

The western corporate controlled media are in disarray. Chalk another victory up for the people.

I get why some support trump , I don't agree but I get it and I certainly get why HRC is so unpopular but I don't get why someone of your apparent political ideology can seem pleased or even supportive of trump .

Watching trump be introduced by arch homophobe Pence who he's chose as his running mate , having listened to his clearly racist language and on into arguments we've rehashed before I can't reconcile it .

As I said I thought his speech was fairly Presidential and it did surprise me but i also remember Thatcher channeling St Francis of Assis .