Donald Trump for President Thread

[kithnou]

One of US's biggest problem is the fact most no-one believes a word their main stream media trumpets.
The fourth estate in USA is seriously compromised.

Trump called them out and showed them for what they are beautifully.

 

[dholliday]

the below top-rated Guardian comment tells us exactly why Trump won, aimed at mainstream liberal media and their echo chambers.

note: i was put on Guardian pre-mod for about 2 years for saying much the same things.


---------------
"This could have ALL been avoided. How to stop Trump:

1. STOP, for the LOVE of GOD, STOP peddling identity politics. Trump voters - working class people - despise it. They know what you're doing - it's obvious.

2. STOP treating ethnicity, gender, sexuality and religion as a proxy for class warfare; you are trying to displace them by creating a new under-class and stoking ethnocentrism, gynocentrism and tribalism for the purpose of manufacturing a new electorate and a globalised, supranational governance that NO-ONE wants.

3. STOP speaking about groups, start speaking about individuals (you know, actual liberalism).

4. Stop polarising ALL debate. Just because you aren't rabidly pro-feminism, it doesn't make you a misogynist. Just because you aren't rabidly in favour of the EU, it doesn't make you a fascist. Just because you don't support black lives matter, it doesn't make you a white supremacist. Just because you don't support SSM, it doesn't make you a homophobe.

5. Stop pushing mass immigration for the purposes of creating a new electorate. They know what you're doing. Every minority group in the UK is opposed to mass immigration. Even Hispanics are opposed to mass immigration, and are more conservative - on a policy basis - and religious than white males.

6. Stop preaching cultural relativism; if you oppose something for one identity, oppose it for ALL identities. Murder doesn't suddenly become more acceptable because the perpetrator is Islamic; sexism doesn't become more acceptable because the perpetrator is female; racism doesn't become more acceptable because the hatred is being spewed at white men.

Get it? Until all of this STOPS, until we start to assign rights and responsibilities at the level of the individual and not the group, until all of the incessant shaming, self-loathing and guilt-tripping subsides, this will get infinitely worse."
---------------

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

Ok, let me ask again. If you don't think that there is something to screen for, why would you need to screen in the first place? The very fact that you want to screen for something suggests that you think people from somewhere else are more likely to be bad people.

Im confused by this post, because I've already answered your point, and in the very message you quoted. The real question is, why do you feel there is absolutely no need for screening given the terror attacks carried out in Europe?

 

[deipnosophist]

Ok, let me ask again. If you don't think that there is something to screen for, why would you need to screen in the first place? The very fact that you want to screen for something suggests that you think people from somewhere else are more likely to be bad people.

lol please tell me you are not that naive

 

[BlueToff]

Ok, let me ask again. If you don't think that there is something to screen for, why would you need to screen in the first place? The very fact that you want to screen for something suggests that you think people from somewhere else are more likely to be bad people.



Sorry to lump this in with the above, but the last census put roughly 95% of the population of Wakefield as British, with 96.5% having English as their first language.

The last census would be 2011?

I won't argue with the numbers, but I can only tell you that in the local area, there are plenty of immigrants, plenty of ethnic minority groups.

They tend to be in certain areas - the poorer areas - and segregation is an issue here. maybe that is the course of the issue more than immigration itself - well in fact I'm sure it is - segregation.

Those numbers have surprised me. Having lived in the area for 16 years, I would have thought it would have been slightly higher.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Despite all the hysteria, very little will change. It rarely does. Be cynical people!!

 

[tsubaki]

Ok, let me ask again. If you don't think that there is something to screen for, why would you need to screen in the first place? The very fact that you want to screen for something suggests that you think people from somewhere else are more likely to be bad people.

Well, for a start you want to know that the people coming in are not people you have already thrown out before.

 

[BlueToff]

And this highlights the issue really doesn't it? It's all perception vs. reality.

Perhaps.

I know for a fact that there is plenty of foreign-born/ethnic minorities living in the city/area. Not as much as a major city, of course, though I am very close to a major city given that Leeds is about 15 minutes away. Perhaps there is some crossover.

The issue is segregation - and of course segregation breeds, to an extent, a feeling of 'us v them'.

In the major cities, it's not as much of a problem. In places like where I'm from (and I know that this is the case for many people obviously) there's certain places that are just no go areas. And ultimately, many of those places are the areas that have the highest population of migrants living in them.

My point would be there needs to be a balance. I've grown up with it, and I'm not going to completely change my view because of some numbers. I'm not arguing with the facts, but at the same time I can't disregard what I've witnessed first-hand...

Edit: Yes, the census was 2011.

I would be very surprised if the numbers haven't grown slightly in the next few years.

Anyway, my initial point was that, compared to a city of a similar size in the US, I think I've had more exposure to immigration than my American counterpart... By and large I was agreeing with your initial point

 

[edge]

Amexit + brexit , liberal s having a terrible time accepting that people just don't think the same way.
First it was brexit voters being old, uneducated, white racists that had been lied to now it's trump voters turn, wonder if they will want a re run over there like are lot.
Shame Sanders didn't get to go against trump think he would have made a better President than either of the other two, still its a boot in the balls for the establishment so not all bad.

 

[deipnosophist]

Despite all the hysteria, very little will change. It rarely does. Be cynical people!!

This is the reality

 

[Dom1878]

Both were extremely bad choices, the only positive is hopefully it will strengthen the relationship with Russia as opposed to Clinton which would have made it worse.

 

[Prevenger17]

the below top-rated Guardian comment tells us exactly why Trump won, aimed at mainstream liberal media and their echo chambers.

note: i was put on Guardian pre-mod for about 2 years for saying much the same things.


---------------
"This could have ALL been avoided. How to stop Trump:

1. STOP, for the LOVE of GOD, STOP peddling identity politics. Trump voters - working class people - despise it. They know what you're doing - it's obvious.

2. STOP treating ethnicity, gender, sexuality and religion as a proxy for class warfare; you are trying to displace them by creating a new under-class and stoking ethnocentrism, gynocentrism and tribalism for the purpose of manufacturing a new electorate and a globalised, supranational governance that NO-ONE wants.

3. STOP speaking about groups, start speaking about individuals (you know, actual liberalism).

4. Stop polarising ALL debate. Just because you aren't rabidly pro-feminism, it doesn't make you a misogynist. Just because you aren't rabidly in favour of the EU, it doesn't make you a fascist. Just because you don't support black lives matter, it doesn't make you a white supremacist. Just because you don't support SSM, it doesn't make you a homophobe.

5. Stop pushing mass immigration for the purposes of creating a new electorate. They know what you're doing. Every minority group in the UK is opposed to mass immigration. Even Hispanics are opposed to mass immigration, and are more conservative - on a policy basis - and religious than white males.

6. Stop preaching cultural relativism; if you oppose something for one identity, oppose it for ALL identities. Murder doesn't suddenly become more acceptable because the perpetrator is Islamic; sexism doesn't become more acceptable because the perpetrator is female; racism doesn't become more acceptable because the hatred is being spewed at white men.

Get it? Until all of this STOPS, until we start to assign rights and responsibilities at the level of the individual and not the group, until all of the incessant shaming, self-loathing and guilt-tripping subsides, this will get infinitely worse."
---------------

That's kind of what I was trying to say, except a lot better.

 

[witchdoc187]

But as @CahillsCornerFlag pointed out, the press actively cover up some of the issues that have risen due to increased amounts of immigration.

His examples in Germany and Sweden are perfectly legitimate.

It's censorship to fit a view, whatever way you look at it.

Anthony Bourdain - Parts Unknown.

There was an episode where he went to Frankfurt, Cologne and Dusseldorf I believe.

One of the things brought up was the issues caused by mass immigration (the growth of the Nazi party in that area particularly in recent years).

That episode wasn't broadcast on national TV in the UK... All other episodes of the series were.

I'm quite a balanced person.

of course, those issues aren't all because of immigration, but people have to stop jumping on the racist bandwagon.

Call a spade a spade.

If a muslim man who has recent migrated from Syria has raped a women in Germany, then that man is a rapist - regardless of creed or religion or race.

Similarly, if a christian man who has lived in Britain his entire life has raped a women in Liverpool, then that man is a rapist.

The issues in Germany at the moment have been extenuated by mass immigration. There's no way it has helped matters. The Nazi party is growing, there is increased crime, and there are growing reports (and there is plenty of visual evidence of this) of large groups of men beating women in the street.

Of course, that's not all immigrants and anybody blaming it all on them needs a slap. But, equally so, anybody denying the clear issues needs to accept that, as it stands, other people's concerns are legitimate.

I don't disagree mate - its just the way its portrayed in certain areas of the media. If there was a more balanced view and the headlines weren't politically motivated it would be acceptable. I guess each area of the press has its own agenda, which is understandable. If a Christian man rapes somebody his religion is very rarely brought into the equation. Muslims are absolutely vilified in this country through the media and its quite sickening. Again, everybody is entitled to their opinion but people chanting 'go home' 'muslims out' at Trump rallies is actually quite scary. I don't really know why we are always discussing 'groups' of people either.

 

[Prevenger17]

the below top-rated Guardian comment tells us exactly why Trump won, aimed at mainstream liberal media and their echo chambers.

note: i was put on Guardian pre-mod for about 2 years for saying much the same things.


---------------
"This could have ALL been avoided. How to stop Trump:

1. STOP, for the LOVE of GOD, STOP peddling identity politics. Trump voters - working class people - despise it. They know what you're doing - it's obvious.

2. STOP treating ethnicity, gender, sexuality and religion as a proxy for class warfare; you are trying to displace them by creating a new under-class and stoking ethnocentrism, gynocentrism and tribalism for the purpose of manufacturing a new electorate and a globalised, supranational governance that NO-ONE wants.

3. STOP speaking about groups, start speaking about individuals (you know, actual liberalism).

4. Stop polarising ALL debate. Just because you aren't rabidly pro-feminism, it doesn't make you a misogynist. Just because you aren't rabidly in favour of the EU, it doesn't make you a fascist. Just because you don't support black lives matter, it doesn't make you a white supremacist. Just because you don't support SSM, it doesn't make you a homophobe.

5. Stop pushing mass immigration for the purposes of creating a new electorate. They know what you're doing. Every minority group in the UK is opposed to mass immigration. Even Hispanics are opposed to mass immigration, and are more conservative - on a policy basis - and religious than white males.

6. Stop preaching cultural relativism; if you oppose something for one identity, oppose it for ALL identities. Murder doesn't suddenly become more acceptable because the perpetrator is Islamic; sexism doesn't become more acceptable because the perpetrator is female; racism doesn't become more acceptable because the hatred is being spewed at white men.

Get it? Until all of this STOPS, until we start to assign rights and responsibilities at the level of the individual and not the group, until all of the incessant shaming, self-loathing and guilt-tripping subsides, this will get infinitely worse."
---------------

I reckon BSG should be mandatory viewing for kids to teach them about the complexity of the human condition and how it impacts democracy

 

[neil999]

the below top-rated Guardian comment tells us exactly why Trump won, aimed at mainstream liberal media and their echo chambers.

note: i was put on Guardian pre-mod for about 2 years for saying much the same things.


---------------
"This could have ALL been avoided. How to stop Trump:

1. STOP, for the LOVE of GOD, STOP peddling identity politics. Trump voters - working class people - despise it. They know what you're doing - it's obvious.

2. STOP treating ethnicity, gender, sexuality and religion as a proxy for class warfare; you are trying to displace them by creating a new under-class and stoking ethnocentrism, gynocentrism and tribalism for the purpose of manufacturing a new electorate and a globalised, supranational governance that NO-ONE wants.

3. STOP speaking about groups, start speaking about individuals (you know, actual liberalism).

4. Stop polarising ALL debate. Just because you aren't rabidly pro-feminism, it doesn't make you a misogynist. Just because you aren't rabidly in favour of the EU, it doesn't make you a fascist. Just because you don't support black lives matter, it doesn't make you a white supremacist. Just because you don't support SSM, it doesn't make you a homophobe.

5. Stop pushing mass immigration for the purposes of creating a new electorate. They know what you're doing. Every minority group in the UK is opposed to mass immigration. Even Hispanics are opposed to mass immigration, and are more conservative - on a policy basis - and religious than white males.

6. Stop preaching cultural relativism; if you oppose something for one identity, oppose it for ALL identities. Murder doesn't suddenly become more acceptable because the perpetrator is Islamic; sexism doesn't become more acceptable because the perpetrator is female; racism doesn't become more acceptable because the hatred is being spewed at white men.

Get it? Until all of this STOPS, until we start to assign rights and responsibilities at the level of the individual and not the group, until all of the incessant shaming, self-loathing and guilt-tripping subsides, this will get infinitely worse."
---------------

yeah but i dont agree with you on all of this either, so....