Donald Trump for President Thread

[Bruce Wayne]

I think @CahillsCornerFlag was just pointing out that, based on the evidence of what is happening in places such as Germany or Sweden at the moment, then allowing poorly screened migrants from the most turbulent area of the planet to come in in such numbers may not be the best or safest way forward.

He's not just making a sweeping statement. He's basing his opinion on what is happening...

I find it incredible that you think adequate screening for people is tantamount to racism. The fact you seem happy to ignore the terror attacks in Europe throughout the last year, and would blindly allow extremists into the country is worrying. I would fully expect to be screened if I went to live in another country, this is no different.

Straw man argument Bruce. If you actually read the bit you highlighted in the quote to which you responded, you might have noted the correspondent specifically described "poorly screened".

TBF that just proves CCF's point. There is a world of difference between the mass immigration of, say, the Windrush generation - which took place legally - and with that seen over the past twenty years, a substantial amount of which is illegal. We in the West desperately need to go back to the former type of immigration, if for no other reason that the people who run the illegal immigration networks are absolutely vile.

Ok, let me ask again. If you don't think that there is something to screen for, why would you need to screen in the first place? The very fact that you want to screen for something suggests that you think people from somewhere else are more likely to be bad people.

I'm from Wakefield. Much of the local population is made up by ethnic minorities or immigrants. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

Sorry to lump this in with the above, but the last census put roughly 95% of the population of Wakefield as British, with 96.5% having English as their first language.

 

[neil999]

Money making tip

Next time there's an opinion poll, bet everything you've got on the opposite outcome.

i dont think american polls have ever been this wrong before tho?

 

[edge]

London has far and away the most migrants per head of population in the country, followed by other university towns. All voted overwhelmingly to stay in the EU, with most inner-London boroughs voting around 70/30 in favour. Likewise, most of the cities in American with the highest proportion of foreign born citizens residing in them voted Democrat.

This isn't those who have exposure to immigrants that are complaining about them but those that don't have exposure to them, so yes, the racist allegation seems perfectly justified to me. It's hard to say how a candidate that called Mexicans rapists and wants to ban Muslims as anything but racist, and that's before you even get onto his misogyny.

We shouldn't confuse basic decency with political correctness.

How many in those voter in London boroughs were immigrants themselves , not being funny would genuinely like to know.

 

[abelard]

Hard to say; in any other system (like in ours, if he won a General Election of this kind) he would have a lot of power and a considerable mandate to do stuff.

In the US however he will probably get very little done - this victory, as massive as it is, did take place against a backdrop of near total disapproval from both political establishments and they retain control of Congress. They will probably be able to ride over him with impunity; aside from the wall (large parts of which are already in place) he won't be able to do anything.

on foreign policy though US presidents can do just about anything they want. they chuckle at quaint parliamentary votes over things like starting wars in the middle east

 

[Tubey]

The UK probably does differ to the US in this instance.

i.e. 'middle England' - the towns and cities that aren't major university hubs for example - are the areas that swayed Brexit. I know, i'm from one of them, and almost universally the vote was out. But, the difference between the UK and US in this case is that in the UK, due to size more than anything else, I think most areas can claim to be 'affected' (both positively and negatively, btw) by immigration.

I'm from Wakefield. Much of the local population is made up by ethnic minorities or immigrants. I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

However, I also accept and acknowledge the fact that in the areas that have the most immigrants in (there are several areas that are 'exclusively' segregated - but such is life), there's more crime, there's a higher poverty rate (due to large-scale organisations exploiting lower wages etc), lower life-expectancy... I could go on.

Now, that's not to say that all of the criminals in my area are immigrants or from ethinic minorities. I'm sure a large number are local divvies and scroates who shouldn't be allowed to breathe, but there are definitely issues.

Rotherham is another example. The politcal correctness of an inept police force unwilling to do what needed to be done, and much of that was due to race.

So, my original point was that, in the UK, the 'backwater' towns and cities have an experience of immigration. To say that these places don't is a bit insulting, and it's a point that I have had many arguments about with people who live/work in the major cities.

In the US, I think it's clear that 'middle America' genuinely means just that. Low numbers of immigrants, real 'backwater' towns and cities out in the sticks. Their exposure to immigration likely is very limited - and Trump knew that, acknowledged it, and made sure he hammered home the point.

That won him the election.

The UK is very different to the USA. We're more comparable to an individual state, in that we are economically and in terms of population absolutely dominated by London, in the same way a state is dominated by its' capital.

There's little difference between the Brexit vote and this one in terms of demographics. You are reciting fairly rare instances of events that the media has blown up because they get views and therefore make money. A gang of evil immigrants hunting girls is something you remember more than 10 other rapes because it has that "foreign" element to it.

Britain is 87% white. 82% of male sex offenders are white. Only 6% are Asian.

The media have big questions to answer about irrational fearmongering, and politicians have to answer how political correctness has resulted in people being mislabelled as racists - because those two things create one toxic outcome; namely, people think there's a massive problem, yet are not allowed to talk about it, when the reality is there is barely a problem at all, and talking about it would quickly uncover that.

There's a basic lack of education in both the USA and the UK. Too many have been let down for too long, and it's resulted in a populace who are disadvantaged and lack basic intelligence to be able to rationally look at something and then do their own research to see if it holds up. That's why Farage and co. got Brexit despite lying through their teeth about everything to do with it, and why Trump is now President while doing the same thing.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Obviously I don't know much or anything about all this kind of thing so I have a few questions:

Yes he's mental, but will he be as bad as feared? Or more, will he be allowed to be as bad?
Will it be the usual promise a lot while campaigning and deliver not a lot as usual with these sorts of things?

I also have a random question about Ronald Reagan. He was an celeb turned president. Was it mad when he got in? Or did he have a better background than Trump? (I don't know what party Reagan was because i'm dumb).

Reagan was a governor, so least the public had an idea of what his views and policies looked like. This is a step into the unknown, was it all bluster regarding the wall around Mexico, prosecuting Clinton, banning Muslims or will Trump follow through...

 

[deipnosophist]

Money making tip

Next time there's an opinion poll, bet everything you've got on the opposite outcome.

As an often-time trader, Brexit lent me great presentiment as to how to position bets on this election. That said, I suggest nimble footedness remains critical. As with Brexit, the markets will bounce

 

[Tubey]

I'm from Wakefield. Much of the local population is made up by ethnic minorities or immigrants.

... the last census put roughly 95% of the population of Wakefield as British, with 96.5% having English as their first language.

And this highlights the issue really doesn't it? It's all perception vs. reality.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Everton to lose the next 10 then right?

No comment. You never know when my powers will snap back into action, law of averages n'all.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

How many in those voter in London boroughs were immigrants themselves , not being funny would genuinely like to know.

You didn't get to vote unless you're a British citizen, so none of the >50% of Southwark that are migrants qualified to vote.

 

[deipnosophist]

One of US's biggest problem is the fact most no-one believes a word their main stream media trumpets.
The fourth estate in USA is seriously compromised.

 

[ToffeeDan]

Direction of First Nuclear Warhead

6/4 North Korea
7/4 Moscow
10/3 DC
4/1 China
6/1 Mexico

 

[ToffeeDoug]

Nigel Farage has phoned Theresa May this morning asking if he can become the UK's new ambassador to the USA.
I said last week that our reality had been suspended in recent months and a crack political satire writing team had assumed control. This latest event merely confirms it.

 

[neil999]

does he have to release his taxes before he is inaugarated?!

 

[ToffeeDoug]

Just as in the UK now, the more you tell people you absolutely mustn't vote for the terrible option, the more likely they are to do so...."don't tell me what to do"!
Again, in the UK the Labour Party took the white working class for granted and then lost it to apathy or right wing nationalists, ditto the same now in the USA with the Democrats.