Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[GrandOldTeam]

 

[dholliday]

I'm going to be very direct here.

You've amply demonstrated that you have zero data science credentials. I've already torn you apart on this dataset once. You're now trying to lie with statistics by omitting the case count numbers you previously posted, which show 2-3x higher lethality among the unvaccinated during that time period.

What you are doing is reckless and dangerous. You need to go take a real hard look in the mirror. The currencies at stake here are your ego, and human lives. Choosing the former over the latter makes you no different than, say, LBJ, Wolfowitz and Blair...but those are not people to aspire to emulate.

… so when you said I didn’t like Young because he was a Tory and once said stuff I disagreed with, you were talking crap?

The comments sections on Youtube videos have been like that since day 1. They are strange echo chambers for people with nothing better to do. The fact almost 90% of the country received the first jabs shows that these people are the outliers, thankfully.

In other news, 95% of road traffic accidents involve people wearing seat belts, therefore seat belts are crap and should be banned.

Wow.

Just popped into this thread for the first time in a while. Can’t believe some of the nonsense flying about with the likes of Toby ‘the pandemic is over’ Young being cited as sources.

Given the subject matter, and how important it is for all of us that we all get vaccinated, it makes me pretty angry that the site is being used as an amplifier for cranks.

You should be ashamed of yourself posting stuff like this.

Cherry picked data that isn’t even correct. Those numbers are wrong. They refer only to the cases with known vaccination status, most cases in Germany have an unknown vaccination status.

This has started to bother me.

I think it’s dangerous.

But to be honest, having sacked off social media aside from forums already, I’m considering sacking it all of entirely. I’m not sure the positives outweigh the negatives anymore.

There’s an interesting rhetorical tactic, often used by conspiracy types, known as Gish Galloping.

It’s analogous to the Trump tactic of lying so often, that by the time someone is halfway through addressing the first 10 inaccurate statements, they’ve already moved on to the next 10.

Worth bearing in mind why someone might do this.

View attachment 150202

It's the hazard of establishing a "moderation-free zone" for the purposes of permitting political discourse free of censorship. There are some astonishingly scummy actors out there today who will say absolutely anything in order to push their political point of view.

That is not GOT's fault, and the site doesn't have Facebook's billions that we can demand be thrown at the problem. It leaves us in the position, as individuals, to stand up to the lies.

It's encouraging, to me, that so many of us do it. I'd like to see more of this happen in everyday life. People are (reasonably?) so afraid of social consequences that they let nonsense like this pass or heavily water down criticism, when I see people say this stuff in person.

This is a very good point. "Winning" a rhetorical argument is a zero-sum game. Logically speaking, only one participant can ever have the preponderance of the evidence on their side, if absolute truth exists. (It is possible that neither side does, if equal weight of evidence exists or we're talking about something that boils down to pure preference).

This leaves someone really determined to "win" but defending a weak position armed with nothing but sophistry. We should probably infer something about character, when we observe someone resorting to it.

What I don’t really get is the aim or motive. What is it trying to achieve?

Is it just to spam for the purpose of attrition? To create apathy?

I don’t see the virtue of ignorance but it seems to be highly regarded by a large number of people.

The answer is ego reinforcement and social standing. Neil Peart once presciently characterized the Internet as a place where people can "test for echo". Cranks can find other cranks, where that was once hard to do when all communication (and politics?) was local.

The end result of this process is entire social structures where people can get social standing without being burdened by facts, or much having to change what they believe. Under some circumstances, this is a good thing. Conventional wisdom is often proven wrong later.

Under other circumstances, it is toxic. The Internet is equally an environment where pedophiles, racists, anti-vaxxers et al can find one another and reinforce their views.

Hard to ascribe motive. I’m sure that some genuinely believe what they post, and can find 20 sources of varying legitimacy to back that position up. Their motive is maybe to alert others to information they think those others might not be aware of.

A couple of my close friends fall into this category and spam Facebook with a variety of sketchy info. A regular phrase I see from them is something like “this is what they’re not telling you…”, alongside a nugget of info, but a quick Google will establish that it’s already been widely reported, and often part of published government data.

Others are entirely dishonest, and when inaccurate stuff is pointed out, they’ll pivot to a different 10 points, or double down. Genuinely no idea what their motive is, other than to ‘not be wrong on the internet’.

For those vaccinated it will end. For those not, which will include me when the definition changes from 2 to 3 (then 4 etc), this will RIGHTLY carry on until we make the right decisions.

I used to believe all that alternative news nonsense, but seeing people like yourself and one of my friends posting endless streams of these alternative "facts" pushes me away. These people are dangerous.

We make our own decisions, mine is based on a family history of rare autoimmune diseases and the knowledge that its a new type of vaccine. But this doesn't make my decision right, just different. I also hold the belief that this decision has consequences, and actually currently believe those consequences aren't even stringent enough.

Lots of internet scientists, doctors and barristers out there with a degree from the university of life. Whoever yells loudest MUST be right.

We live in the age of the nobhead.

This is true.
Your entitled to your opinion.
Don't mean I have to respect it.
I might think your opinion is batpoo crazy makes you look like an idiot.
But your entitled to state it all you like.

In all seriousness, in today's world, people like to have their opinion and scream about having it, stating it is fact, but not respect others opinion who might not agree.

there is a massive difference between 'opinion' and spamming a forum with misinformation.

opinion is only respected if it is informed and considered. not when it's just random ranting with no real justification.

that's the thing, I don't have to respect anybody's opinion if it is fundamentally flawed and ignorant.

meanwhile:
View attachment 150230

This is more or less the standard freedom of speech take. The problem is determining where the line for shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater is.

We don't let people jeopardize the personal safety of others with speech, and unfortunately speech on social media has become a new battlefront in interstate conflict (thanks, Hillary). On the one hand, we don't want social media to become just another government mouthpiece, the way China wants it to be. On the other hand, we equally don't want it to be full of enemy propaganda.

Western societies are dealing with this new problem in their usual slow, scattershot and discombobulated way. Until we blunder into a solution like a man fumbling around in the dark for his glasses, which is generally how democratic societies solve problems, the burden is going to rest on individuals to stand up to the nonsense.

Either a sad lonely character with a massive case of Dunning-Kruger or a disinfo-for-hire type.

The last couple of pages have seen a genuinely interesting discussion break out and its been a great read, the unifying force of dholliday being the worst person on the Internet has had a surprisingly positive impact

Couldn’t agree more with the last bit, commentators (like Young or nearly all of the people at Fox now) are responsible for trashing a lot of peoples faith in the news and ruining their understanding of events.

Its all done deliberately as well, with the vast majority of them being obviously personally compromised and actively supporting a side and / or individuals (Cuomo for example). They shouldn’t be anywhere near mass media but instead they are an increasingly large slice of it (and a correspondingly large bit of politics too).

No it doesn’t and no it isn’t equally as dangerous.

If I post that I think that the unvaccinated should be essentially removed from participating in society, it may irritate a few people reading, but won’t influence governments decision. If someone else posts unverified nonsense picked up from Facebook it may send another user down some rabbit hole and result in them making a decision on the vaccine based on incorrect information.

Personally I think a vaccine mandate would be a bad thing, particularly as most of the vaccine hesitate are from the margins of society anyway. I don’t think removing people from society, who already feel unheard, would be a good thing at all.

I respect anyones decision on what they want to with their own body, but what is becoming ever clearer is that vaccines and boosters are what will get us back to a normal society. The uptake is vital. Every person who makes the call not to take the vaccine affects this, so although I respect their decision, what I can’t respect is them justifying that decision by attempting to indoctrinate others into what is essentially an anti-science position.

Yeah but not really tho

These comments are quite insane. Psychotic even. My posts are seriously sourced, with several dozen URL's (for anyone wishing to learn more). Your dismissal in such a tone as above is incredible, really.

Some of yous might remember me posting a video analysis on Mass Psychosis back in August.

Dr Robert Malone broached this too:

 

[cronullasharks]

These comments are quite insane. Psychotic even. My posts are seriously sourced, with several dozen URL's (for anyone wishing to learn more). Your dismissal in such a tone as above in incredible, really.

Some of yous might remember me posting a video analysis on Mass Psychosis back in August.

Dr Robert Malone broached this too:

Ok holliday

 

[dholliday]

Here is Malone's full 3-hour discussion with Joe Rogan:





The Youtube link will get removed at some point, so here's the Spotify.

The one with McCullough got 40m views...this one will likely approach 100m...these are serious numbers. Far more than mainstream media channels/sites. The people have had enough.

This thread here is an almost-absolute echo chamber, divorced from the reality of what most people are actually thinking.

 

[cronullasharks]

Joe Rogan lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

 

[toffee82]

Ok holliday

Allaway!
Celebrate!
Just one day with his wife!

 

[cronullasharks]

Allaway!
Celebrate!
Just one day with his wife!

Holliday!
Celebrate!
Just 3 hours with a joe rogan podcast

Ward Out!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That's the Dr Robert Malone who was removed from Twitter for spreading anti-vaxx misinformation? Reported this. GOT shouldn't be somewhere where this nonsense propogates. Incidentally, here is a fact check of the garbage in that video that resulted in him being banned by Twitter.

Claims mislead about COVID-19 vaccines’ effectiveness against omicron

Missing context. While it’s true that people who are vaccinated can still get infected with omicron, early research has shown that the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalization and death stemming from the new variant.

apnews.com

 

[cronullasharks]

That's the Dr Robert Malone who was removed from Twitter for spreading anti-vaxx misinformation? Reported this. GOT shouldn't be somewhere where this nonsense propogates.

GOT is just an echo chamber who aren't as enlightened as the Rogan fanbase unfortunately.

 

[dholliday]

That's the Dr Robert Malone who was removed from Twitter for spreading anti-vaxx misinformation? Reported this. GOT shouldn't be somewhere where this nonsense propogates.

In the first 10-20 minutes of the podcast, Dr Malone & Rogan discuss why he was banned.

You might wanna hear it from more than just one side.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

In the first 10-20 minutes of the podcast, Dr Malone & Rogan discuss why he was banned.

You might wanna hear it from more than just one side.

You're a danger.

 

[dholliday]

If I get banned for linking what will likely be the most listened-to podcast in history...well...it's worth having a think about that.

 

[cronullasharks]

If I get banned for linking what will likely be the most listened-to podcast in history...well...it's worth having a think about that.

An echo chamber?

 

[Brennan]

If I get banned for linking what will likely be the most listened-to podcast in history...well...it's worth having a think about that.

Baby Shark is the most watched music video in history.

Since when has number of views been a worthwhile metric of validity or value ?

 

[xena]

Quick question is it possible too get covid twice in 3 months. Reason i ask daughter in law had it in October and as just got it again. My son as just tested positive as well two kids negative neither have symptoms only got tested because of work. Both had their vaccines not booster yet .Both tested positive on pcr, she was positive on lateral flow as well he wasn't .