Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[ToffeeTim]

Tsuabaki doesn't support lockdown either. They just support other restrictions to stop those lockdowns happening. I think that's the crucial point.

I support measures, not any restrictions at this point. I don't see having to wear a mask, if they bring that back in, as a restriction. I don't see working from home as a massive restriction. I do see shutting down businesses, not allowing people to go to certain places or not allowing unvaccinated people to mix with society as restrictions, though.

I know, but I just don't agree that track and trace is going to be that effective.

 

[mill]

What about if you’ve got naturally occurring antibodies from having the virus? I did an antibody test two weeks ago, I’ve still got them from when I had the virus in November 2020. Why isn’t this being considered a form of protection against the virus, when the NHS own data shows that vaccine antibodies wear off by up to 60% 6 months after vaccination? Another reason vaccine passports make no sense and a proof of negative test should trump everything.

My post wasn’t mean to be comprehensive mate. I’m just talking about the steps than can be taken to help avoid lockdown.

 

[Neiler]

EU Covid cert is fine for here, have seen it being used and have used it myself cross border.

For interest, the new NI digital cert has 2 parts; Travel and Domestic.

Cheers pal!!!

 

[Neiler]

But they shouldn't be needed, anywhere

Why mate, restrictions are perfectly legitimate and many sensible depending on specific context.

 

[Neiler]

Restrictions on the freedoms of vaccinated people are not justified or proportionate steps in my opinion. It is also making people doubt the effectiveness of the vaccines at a time when we are trying to encourage more to come forward!

Vaccines arent 100% effective - this we know - they are great and we would be in amess without them, but one of many tools.

 

[JLW]

Worth noting that Christmas is still 5 weeks away too. This isn’t about a virus.

I have been aware of this for months mate.

As soon as the vaccine went from 80+ 60+ 50+ .......... and has now tumbled down to 5 year olds.
Allowing people to spread the virus because they have complied with the vaccine program.

 

[BlueToff]

Why mate, restrictions are perfectly legitimate and many sensible depending on specific context.

No they aren't, 18 months in, unless you're on the brink of hitting 100s and 100s of people dying a day.

Not when everyone (or vast majority) are vaccinated.

Because then it'll be the same every single winter won't it. People aren't going to have any more protection this time next year than they do now.

 

[BlueToff]

Vaccines arent 100% effective - this we know - they are great and we would be in amess without them, but one of many tools.

But one of those tools shouldn't be shutting businesses down and people not being able to leave their homes.

 

[Amw79]

The idea of vaccine passports is an absolute nonsense that should never see the light of day. If vaccinated people can still catch and transmit a virus, what use is a vaccine passport as a means of protecting people? You could theoretically have a venue full of fully vaccinated people that all have covid. Surely proof of a negative test overrides a vaccine passport in this instance, as you’ve shown that you don’t actually have the virus and aren’t a risk of spreading it?

If we see vaccine passports enforced then it categorically proves that this whole thing isn’t about a virus and protecting people anymore.

I think this has a couple of incorrect assumptions in there. That vaccine passports are a new thing, and that vaccination must be 100% or it’s no good.

Vaccine passports for international travel have been around for decades for a variety of diseases, yellow fever is a good ‘go to’ example here.

The Yellow fever vaccine is widely considered to be the most effective vaccine ever made (98% or 99% effective I think, with lifelong immunity). But that still means that 1 or 2 people in 100 can catch and transmit it, and many countries require proof of vaccination to travel there, but they don’t ask for proof of a negative test.

It’s about probability, and reduction of risk, not elimination of risk.

So I’ve got no issue with Covid vaccine passports for international travel as it’s a well established preventative measure. I’m less convinced on in country use for access to hospitality etc.

 

[MikeH72]

I think this has a couple of incorrect assumptions in there. That vaccine passports are a new thing, and that vaccination must be 100% or it’s no good.

Vaccine passports for international travel have been around for decades for a variety of diseases, yellow fever is a good ‘go to’ example here.

The Yellow fever vaccine is widely considered to be the most effective vaccine ever made (98% or 99% effective I think, with lifelong immunity). But that still means that 1 or 2 people in 100 can catch and transmit it, and many countries require proof of vaccination to travel there, but they don’t ask for proof of a negative test.

It’s about probability, and reduction of risk, not elimination of risk.

So I’ve got no issue with vaccines for international travel as it’s a well established preventative measure. I’m less convinced on in country use for access to hospitality etc.

Well yeah, I was talking specifically about covid vaccine passports there, I should’ve clarified.

 

[JLW]

Vaccines arent 100% effective - this we know - they are great and we would be in amess without them, but one of many tools.

If vaccines are 100% effective this thread wouldn't be open anymore.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Vaccines arent 100% effective - this we know - they are great and we would be in amess without them, but one of many tools.

Of course not, there is no such thing as 100% effectiveness because we don't live in a perfect world.

That doesn't mean that they aren't working, because they are.

People took the vaccine because they thought it was their civic duty, it would give them and those around them protection, and it would allow them to live a normal life again. To then restrict people who made the responsible choice to get vaccinated is unfair and disproportionate in my opinion.

 

[MikeH72]

Of course not, there is no such thing as 100% effectiveness because we don't live in a perfect world.

That doesn't mean that they aren't working, because they are.

People took the vaccine because they thought it was their civic duty, it would give them and those around them protection, and it would allow them to live a normal life again. To then restrict people who made the responsible choice to get vaccinated is unfair and disproportionate in my opinion.

Restricting people vaccinated or not is unfair, because as already discussed, vaccinated people can still spread the virus whereas an unvaccinated person that has tested negative can’t.

 

[Amw79]

Well yeah, I was talking specifically about covid vaccine passports there, I should’ve clarified.

Yeah, but think the idea that if we go for Covid vaccine passports there’s ‘something else’ going on, misses the point that no vaccines are 100% but they substantially reduce risk. I think Covid vaccine passports will be here for a few years, until it’s settled into a predictable endemic virus.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Restricting people vaccinated or not is unfair, because as already discussed, vaccinated people can still spread the virus whereas an unvaccinated person that has tested negative can’t.

Oh I agree

I just think that people were told that it was their duty to get vaccinated because it would get us back to normal. So to then restrict people who did what was requested would be unfair.