Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[BlueStevie35]

Managed to rebook my booster jab, still only getting Wednesday afternoons for my local site at Snake Mountain (aka Anfield) but managed to get a Saturday booking at a place just past the Everton Road walk in on December 4th

 

[Neiler]

Because males under 30 have a rare but possible chance of getting serious conditions from the jabs such as heart inflammation and the more jabs you get the higher the probability of you coming a cropper at some stage.

Its easy for someone in their 50's+ saying "oh just get another one" when they statistically have very little risk of any serious adverse reactions and a lot more chance of getting seriously ill from COVID so the trade off in risk of taking a 3rd, 4th or 10th jab is worth it for that age group - is that trade off worth it for a healthy 21 year old?

The more this goes on the more you get the feeling the younger generations are being fed to the lions by the boomers.

I'll not be getting a booster shot until they cut the adverse reactions from it - I still get weird shooting pains down my arm over 3 months on which I never had until about 2 days after my 2nd Pfizer jab.

Maybe this would be a helpful explanation mate. Was listening to an immunology post cast yesterday it said that the immunity-waning of the vaccines being reported in the media is absolute immunity. This is the efficacy number that is driven by antibodies that stop you from getting an infection in the first place. In the the podcast the American immunologists propose vaccines were always going to wane over time due to the nature of antibodies, that you won’t keep huge numbers of antibodies in your system for years after you have an infection or a vaccine and that it is perfectly normal for them to wane.

What you will have afterward, and is backed up by the brilliant explanatory video @LinekersLegs posted, is cellular defenses that will now respond within 2 days of seeing the virus again. Without the vaccine its 9-10 days which your body takes when it sees a brand new virus. This is the protection that should help to keep people out of hospital unless you get a very high viral load or you have one of the many underlying conditions that mean you are vulnerable, but of course not a silver bullet, so other mitigation measures like masks, distancing, passes etc are useful in terms of reducing exposure and minimizing viral load.

In a way the media arent helping on their reporting on the reduction of waning immunity, sensationalizing the information can lead to polarisation, panic, apathy of just zoning out and being fatigued about the whole thing, the right information should be the public domain to make an informed decision.

I posted some data during the week from Israel that was really good and the best ive seen so far on protection on waning efficacy/protection across age groups between 1, 2, 3, doses:

All that said if you have an opportunity to get a booster, its an absolute no brainier to get it, it essentially turbo boosts and tops up your antibody levels and stimulates your response system to infection again, we're in a very lucky position to have the opportunity to have vaccines in the western world never mind the opportunity to have a booster, there is a huge argument to made that we shouldn't be having boosters at all and the vaccines should be redirected to the developing world.. I got mine myself during the week and id be in the younger cohort, zero inconvenience.

Heres a small sample from the UK on the roll out of boosters so far and how they boost antibody levels, figures are for over 70s in the UK, great evidence as to why its a no brainier to get your booster, especially over flu season:

 

[BlueToff]

Thats exactly what masks do though, they protect others, the other great value is they reduce particles for all so - while no one method is a silver bullet, if two people are wearing masks interacting in a public place and one has covid there is a reduction in the transmission of the viral load.

Yeah this is my point.

Masks - like self-isolating etc - are a 'selfless' act. i.e. they aren't about protecting yourself, they protect others first.

Whereas the vaccine actually is about protecting yourself.

I don't feel uncomfortable being around someone who isn't vaccinated or fully vaccinated (my sister still hasnt' got her second dose, she's due in a few weeks, but she's had covid and so have I so we're all good). My mate's girlfriend is an anti-vaxxer. Dunno why, but I'm not going to stop hanging around with them because actually I don't not like her, I just don't agree with her views on this particular subject. But I don't feel unsafe being around them because I'm vaccinated - I've done all I can to protect myself. Obviously I could still get it. It's unlikely given I've had COVID, but there's still a chance. But that's the risk we run. Enough people I know have also been vaccinated, to protect themselves, that in turn it has helped build up the immunity etc and that's the point of it. But the first aim of any vaccine isn't to protect other people, whereas wearing a mask is about protecting others and only actually helps you if everyone else is wearing a mask as well.

 

[BlueToff]

Maybe this would be a helpful explanation mate. Was listening to an immunology post cast yesterday it said that the immunity-waning of the vaccines being reported in the media is absolute immunity. This is the efficacy number that is driven by antibodies that stop you from getting an infection in the first place. In the the podcast the American immunologists propose vaccines were always going to wane over time due to the nature of antibodies, that you won’t keep huge numbers of antibodies in your system for years after you have an infection or a vaccine and that it is perfectly normal for them to wane.

What you will have afterward, and is backed up by the brilliant explanatory video @LinekersLegs posted, is cellular defenses that will now respond within 2 days of seeing the virus again. Without the vaccine its 9-10 days which your body takes when it sees a brand new virus. This is the protection that should help to keep people out of hospital unless you get a very high viral load or you have one of the many underlying conditions that mean you are vulnerable, but of course not a silver bullet, so other mitigation measures like masks, distancing, passes etc are useful in terms of reducing exposure and minimizing viral load.

In a way the media arent helping on their reporting on the reduction of waning immunity the right information should be the public domain to make an informed decision.

I posted some data during the week from Israel that was really good and the best ive seen so far on protection on waning efficacy/protection across age groups between 1, 2, 3, doses:

All that said if you have an opportunity to get a booster, its an absolute no brainier to get it, it essentially turbo boosts and tops up your antibody levels, we're in a very lucky position to have the opportunity to have vaccines in the western world never mind the opportunity to have a booster, there is a huge argument to made that we shouldn't be having boosters at all and the vaccines should be redirected to the developing world.. I got mine myself during the week and id be in the under younger cohort, zero inconvenience. Heres a small sample from the UK on the roll out of boosters so far and how they boost antibody levels figures are for over 70s in the UK, great evidence as to why its a no brainier to get your booster, especially over flu season:

Good post mate.

I see both sides. I think SAGE should stay away from saying everyone should definitely need a booster just yet. Let's focus on getting people who 100% need them - either because of age, vulnerability or their job etc - first.

Then, as more and more evidence becomes available, make the booster option open to people in the categories that aren't a priority. I have no issue with that, and I'd probably take up the option. I do have a bit of trepidation though because of how horrid I felt after the second jab. The doctor I spoke to the other day to get some antibiotics for my chest infection said I almost certainly have had or have got long covid, as I explained all my issues with exercise, irregular heart beat etc and how horrid I felt for weeks after my second jab. So I do have some nerves, definitely.

 

[TN Toffee]

People getting the vaccine are only protecting themselves from death or being hospitalized because they can still transmit it to other people. So no matter what any media platform or government tell us you are only protecting yourself by getting the vaccine.

Same with masks, lets say you got tested and knew you never had covid would you still wear a mask? Yes lots of people would, why? To protect themselves because if they don't have the virus then how can they spread it? So i dont buy this bull that everyone is doing it to protect others they're not, they are protecting themselves (and rightly so)

When walking into a supermarket of 100 people are you thinking when you put your mask on 'I hope i don't spread this virus i haven't even got' or are you thinking 'I'm wearing this so i don't pick up the virus from the any of the 100 people in here.'

This statement is patently false. By choosing to get vaccinated, you are playing your part in making sure the healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. In doing so, you increase the probability that an at-risk person is able to receive treatment for a breakthrough case, but also that a lifesaving ambulance is available for someone involved in a serious car wreck, or a hospital bed is available for someone with an easily survivable illness like appendicitis, or someone is able to receive a quality-of-procedure such as a joint replacement. It’s not just about COVID.

 

[MikeH72]

Replies there pretty much all celebrating and laughing that he’s died.

 

[Neiler]

Good post mate.

I see both sides. I think SAGE should stay away from saying everyone should definitely need a booster just yet. Let's focus on getting people who 100% need them - either because of age, vulnerability or their job etc - first.

Then, as more and more evidence becomes available, make the booster option open to people in the categories that aren't a priority. I have no issue with that, and I'd probably take up the option. I do have a bit of trepidation though because of how horrid I felt after the second jab. The doctor I spoke to the other day to get some antibiotics for my chest infection said I almost certainly have had or have got long covid, as I explained all my issues with exercise, irregular heart beat etc and how horrid I felt for weeks after my second jab. So I do have some nerves, definitely.

In a way the UK are a victim of their own fast roll out i think mate, they really front loaded vaccines in the early part of the year so have a lot of people now coming into the booster territory over the winter. Over here we did it on age from top to bottom every decade, so at the mo we're doing over 60's/front line up and when that done it will be onto over 50s and so on. I think this booster is important myself especially after the first initial doses of the vaccine for the reasons i describe above. In 2022 we will see the advent of Covid antivirals, which i think may be another massive tool in terms of society continuing to function, but in the meantime the booster is no brainier.

I get your trepidation and sorry to hear you are still impacted, i think its a huge and disenfranchised area of need that hasnt got the attention yet is should - long Covid and its chronic impact. Over here the advice is not to get your booster if you have had Covid in the last six months as its likely your antibody levels have been topped post the infection.

I was like you i was floored by the second jab, i got in Feb so the vaccines were new and i didnt take anything at the time - lost two days, have to say after the booster, i took over the counter ibuprofen every 12 hours (even going to bed) and was grand - there was a one time, i had to pick up the Misses and left it a couple of hours over and felt the side effects, but was grand then once i took ibuprofen again - the side effects are very manageable in my experience, if you can take over the counter meds.

 

[BlueToff]

In a way the UK are a victim of their own fast roll out i think mate, they really front loaded vaccines in the early part of the year so have a lot of people now coming into the booster territory over the winter. Over here we did it on age from top to bottom every decade, so at the mo we're doing over 60's/front line up and when that done it will be onto over 50s and so on. I think this booster is important myself especially after the first initial doses of the vaccine for the reasons i describe above. In 2022 we will see the advent of Covid antivirals, which i think may be another massive tool in terms of society continuing to function, but in the meantime the booster is no brainier.

I get your trepidation and sorry to hear you are still impacted, i think its a huge and disenfranchised area of need that hasnt got the attention yet is should - long Covid and its chronic impact. Over here the advice is not to get your booster if you have had Covid in the last six months as its likely your antibody levels have been topped post the infection.

I was like you i was floored by the second jab, i got in Feb so the vaccines were new and i didnt take anything at the time - lost two days, have to say after the booster, i took over the counter ibuprofen every 12 hours (even going to bed) and was grand - there was a one time, i had to pick up the Misses and left it a couple of hours over and felt the side effects, but was grand then once i took ibuprofen again - the side effects are very manageable in my experience, if you can take over the counter meds.

Yeah agree though tbf there's no issue with supply mate, it's been hesitancy. There was a big story on Look North a few weeks ago about how 40% of over 70s (at that stage) and people in vulnerable groups who were eligible for their booster hadn't taken up the offer.

My trepidation is more the long-term impact on my health/fitness. I've had COVID so I know that that's had an impact, I'm not daft in that sense. I also know how it felt to then get floored for weeks fitness wise after the second dose. It wasn't that I felt ill. I can deal with that for a day or two, it's not a problem at all. It's that I'm still not right from it, two and a 1/2 months after my second dose, and 4 months after having COVID. I guess, by the time I get around to being able to have the booster, it'll be after that 6-month spacing anyway.

Good to know that you had no adverse impact from getting your booster. Like I said, it's not a one or two-day flooring I'm worried about, it's my fitness and fatigue levels etc again. It's lasted months as it is.

 

[Neiler]

Yeah agree though tbf there's no issue with supply mate, it's been hesitancy. There was a big story on Look North a few weeks ago about how 40% of over 70s (at that stage) and people in vulnerable groups who were eligible for their booster hadn't taken up the offer.

My trepidation is more the long-term impact on my health/fitness. I've had COVID so I know that that's had an impact, I'm not daft in that sense. I also know how it felt to then get floored for weeks fitness wise after the second dose. It wasn't that I felt ill. I can deal with that for a day or two, it's not a problem at all. It's that I'm still not right from it, two and a 1/2 months after my second dose, and 4 months after having COVID. I guess, by the time I get around to being able to have the booster, it'll be after that 6-month spacing anyway.

Good to know that you had no adverse impact from getting your booster. Like I said, it's not a one or two-day flooring I'm worried about, it's my fitness and fatigue levels etc again. It's lasted months as it is.

Did you get Covid in between dose 1 & 2 mate? What was the spacing between all three. Its hard to know, whether any potential impact was vaccine related, or long covid - which we know can have some chronic symptoms that can last months. I get your weariness though, that would wreak my head as i rely on my fitness regime a lot for a good health outlet, you must be fed up of it all.

I know where your coming from, i run 10k every two days and might go to the gym on the odd day in between, could only do it once this week after the booster and that was on Friday and it was handwork, weirdly yesterday i had a rush of energy like a boost of endorphins or adrenaline, ill be running tomorrow so ill see how i get on.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Yeah agree though tbf there's no issue with supply mate, it's been hesitancy. There was a big story on Look North a few weeks ago about how 40% of over 70s (at that stage) and people in vulnerable groups who were eligible for their booster hadn't taken up the offer.

My trepidation is more the long-term impact on my health/fitness. I've had COVID so I know that that's had an impact, I'm not daft in that sense. I also know how it felt to then get floored for weeks fitness wise after the second dose. It wasn't that I felt ill. I can deal with that for a day or two, it's not a problem at all. It's that I'm still not right from it, two and a 1/2 months after my second dose, and 4 months after having COVID. I guess, by the time I get around to being able to have the booster, it'll be after that 6-month spacing anyway.

Good to know that you had no adverse impact from getting your booster. Like I said, it's not a one or two-day flooring I'm worried about, it's my fitness and fatigue levels etc again. It's lasted months as it is.

RE the Myocarditis/Pericarditis issues with the MRNA jabs this piece in an article shares my concerns:

"David Juurlink, the head of the division of clinical pharmacology at the University of Toronto, has concerns that if it’s the immune response that’s triggering the inflammation, then it might occur at higher rates after the third dose. Beyond that, he also thinks it’s possible that cases could be more severe.

“I do worry that for young men who’ve had two doses and get a third, the risk might be higher,” Juurlink said.

In granting full approval to the Pfizer shot last month, the Food and Drug Administration said the rates of myocarditis and pericarditis in vaccinated boys 16 to 17 years old could be as high as 1 in every 5,000, but that the benefits of the shots still outweighed the risks.

But the possibility of a third dose could reignite the debate around the risk-benefit profile, particularly for boys and young men. If third doses wind up increasing the risk of myocarditis in those groups even higher — and it’s not clear that an extra shot is all that necessary to protect them from Covid-19 — should they broadly receive boosters? Or should it just be older people, who are at lower risk of developing myocarditis after the shots and whose immunity against Covid-19 might be waning in a more worrisome way than young people’s?

Data that could help settle those questions don’t exist yet."

Which is why the scientists and governments need to be looking seriously at the science and costs/benefits of the different age groups.

Having the media whip up propaganda and making out some 16 year old getting a booster jab is akin to a hero in the trenches in WW1 is ludicrous - one death or serious illness from Covid or a Covid vaccine is one too many and we need to keep everyone as safe as possible.

 

[BlueToff]

Did you get Covid in between dose 1 & 2 mate? What was the spacing between all three. Its hard to know, whether any potential impact was vaccine related, or long covid - which we know can have some chronic symptoms that can last months. I get your weariness though, that would wreak my head as i rely on my fitness regime a lot for a good health outlet, you must be fed up of it all.

I know where your coming from, i run 10k every two days and might go to the gym on the odd day in between, could only do it once this week after the booster and that was on Friday and it was handwork, weirdly yesterday i had a rush of energy like a boost of endorphins or adrenaline, ill be running tomorrow so ill see how i get on.

I got covid three weeks after my vaccine (21 days exactly), then had to push my second dose back subsequently. Got my second dose about 5 weeks after my symptoms cleared off.

I've known I had issues with fitness and exercise for months both due to COVID, that I then got over mostly by the end of August, but then I had second dose at start of Sept and it set me back.

It was the doc I spoke to the other day who said I had shown signs of long covid. But I did stress I hadn't felt generally fatigued day to day (though on a night I often am a lot more tired than I used to be).

My fitness was slowly getting back before this chest infection, and I felt good yesterday so hopefully on the mend from that. It's very annoying like and I know that I felt worse after my second jab. I'm very pro vaccine but there are clearly issues there, it all depends on the person.

 

[JLW]

This statement is patently false. By choosing to get vaccinated, you are playing your part in making sure the healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. In doing so, you increase the probability that an at-risk person is able to receive treatment for a breakthrough case, but also that a lifesaving ambulance is available for someone involved in a serious car wreck, or a hospital bed is available for someone with an easily survivable illness like appendicitis, or someone is able to receive a quality-of-procedure such as a joint replacement. It’s not just about COVID.

Completely disagree, people are getting vaccinated to protect themselves so they don't get severely ill.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[TN Toffee]

Completely disagree, people are getting vaccinated to protect themselves so they don't get severely ill.

Can’t really speak to people’s motivation for getting vaccinated. The post I responded to claimed the only purpose that exists for vaccination is to protect yourself, which isn’t true. Whether you mean to or not, you’re helping others in the process.