Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[LinekersLegs]

Because villagers from rural Bangladesh aren't shopping in Asda or popping into a McDonald's for lunch. They aren't comparable.

It's the same as trying to compare effective mask usage between the UK and South Korea, or infection rates between the UK and New Zealand. There's too many variables for one situation to be remotely comparable to the other.

In that study for instance, you can teach effectively a few dozen people each time best practice, but in a country of 60m+ people with high urban density and a massively different culture then it's a completely different story.

They are still popping to the market and to church and restaurants.

So basically the only data you would accept about masks would be if it was from the UK?

 

[Tubey]

They are still popping to the market and to church and restaurants.

So basically the only data you would accept about masks would be if it was from the UK?

No, but western urbanised society would be more helpful - US, France, Germany etc.

I've seen plenty of limited studies that focus on the effect of masks if used perfectly, are of the right grade and used by the majority, but haven't seen anything that's conclusive based on real world evidence. You'll just find plenty of "may be effective" ones, lots of "ifs" and an awful lot of assumptions being made.

If everyone was walking around with perfectly fitting FFP2/3 masks, of course that would be ideal and have a massive impact - but we all know they're not. Hell, how many people actually wear a proper mask and wear it right? 1 in 100 maybe?

 

[Neiler]

They are still popping to the market and to church and restaurants.

So basically the only data you would accept about masks would be if it was from the UK?

Poverty is the huge mitigating factor for me, as we know those of lower socioeconomic profile - not to be presumptive are at a higher risk, not to mention culturally you would have a higher rate of multi generational homes.

You would actually expect if that study was based in the economic west, the results to better. Well I would anyway.

Bangaladesh is actually massive compared to the U.K. they have a population of 160 odd million and is one of the most densely populated countries per capita in the world.

 

[LinekersLegs]

No, but western urbanised society would be more helpful - US, France, Germany etc.

I've seen plenty of limited studies that focus on the effect of masks if used perfectly, are of the right grade and used by the majority, but haven't seen anything that's conclusive based on real world evidence. You'll just find plenty of "may be effective" ones, lots of "ifs" and an awful lot of assumptions being made.

If everyone was walking around with perfectly fitting FFP2/3 masks, of course that would be ideal and have a massive impact - but we all know they're not. Hell, how many people actually wear a proper mask and wear it right? 1 in 100 maybe?

I am sure the recent Bay Area case decrease will be extensively studied but it will take time to be published.

However there is data from earlier stages of the epidemic in the US

Mask adherence and rate of COVID-19 across the United States

Mask wearing has been advocated by public health officials as a way to reduce the spread of COVID-19. In the United States, policies on mask wearing have varied from state to state over the course of the pandemic. Even as more and more states encourage or even mandate mask wearing, many citizens...

journals.plos.org

Mask wearing has been advocated by public health officials as a way to reduce the spread of COVID-19. In the United States, policies on mask wearing have varied from state to state over the course of the pandemic. Even as more and more states encourage or even mandate mask wearing, many citizens still resist the notion. Our research examines mask wearing policy and adherence in association with COVID-19 case rates. We used state-level data on mask wearing policy for the general public and on proportion of residents who stated they always wear masks in public. For all 50 states and the District of Columbia (DC), these data were abstracted by month for April ─ September 2020 to measure their impact on COVID-19 rates in the subsequent month (May ─ October 2020). Monthly COVID-19 case rates (number of cases per capita over two weeks) >200 per 100,000 residents were considered high. Fourteen of the 15 states with no mask wearing policy for the general public through September reported a high COVID-19 rate. Of the 8 states with at least 75% mask adherence, none reported a high COVID-19 rate. States with the lowest levels of mask adherence were most likely to have high COVID-19 rates in the subsequent month, independent of mask policy or demographic factors. Mean COVID-19 rates for states with at least 75% mask adherence in the preceding month was 109.26 per 100,000 compared to 249.99 per 100,000 for those with less adherence. Our analysis suggests high adherence to mask wearing could be a key factor in reducing the spread of COVID-19. This association between high mask adherence and reduced COVID-19 rates should influence policy makers and public health officials to focus on ways to improve mask adherence across the population in order to mitigate the spread of COVID-19.

 

[spectateur]

I work with a lot of Romanians and our company have a base over there and they are very much against the vaccine.

A friend of mine works in warehouse in London. Most of the workforce are East European as he calls them.
They don't or won't wear masks and most are very anti vaxers.
He's double jabbed and lives in hope.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[Billy Dean]

Here’s a US study on masks

Absence of Apparent Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from Two Stylists...

On May 12, 2020 (day 0), a hair stylist at salon A in Springfield, Missouri (stylist A), developed respiratory symptoms and continued working with clients until day 8, when the stylist received a...

www.cdc.gov

 

[Billy Dean]

I think in the mask debate there seems to be a lot of black and white thinking. “If it’s not perfect it’s not worth it”. Plenty of evidence out there for the effectiveness of masks.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

delighted that i have just read the word 'barebacking' lol

Nothing better than leaving the old wellington boots at home ♡

 

[LinekersLegs]

I think in the mask debate there seems to be a lot of black and white thinking. “If it’s not perfect it’s not worth it”. Plenty of evidence out there for the effectiveness of masks.

Yep, even 5% can make quite a big difference

 

[Tubey]

I am sure the recent Bay Area case decrease will be extensively studied but it will take time to be published.

However there is data from earlier stages of the epidemic in the US

Mask adherence and rate of COVID-19 across the United States

Mask wearing has been advocated by public health officials as a way to reduce the spread of COVID-19. In the United States, policies on mask wearing have varied from state to state over the course of the pandemic. Even as more and more states encourage or even mandate mask wearing, many citizens...

journals.plos.org

Mask wearing has been advocated by public health officials as a way to reduce the spread of COVID-19. In the United States, policies on mask wearing have varied from state to state over the course of the pandemic. Even as more and more states encourage or even mandate mask wearing, many citizens still resist the notion. Our research examines mask wearing policy and adherence in association with COVID-19 case rates. We used state-level data on mask wearing policy for the general public and on proportion of residents who stated they always wear masks in public. For all 50 states and the District of Columbia (DC), these data were abstracted by month for April ─ September 2020 to measure their impact on COVID-19 rates in the subsequent month (May ─ October 2020). Monthly COVID-19 case rates (number of cases per capita over two weeks) >200 per 100,000 residents were considered high. Fourteen of the 15 states with no mask wearing policy for the general public through September reported a high COVID-19 rate. Of the 8 states with at least 75% mask adherence, none reported a high COVID-19 rate. States with the lowest levels of mask adherence were most likely to have high COVID-19 rates in the subsequent month, independent of mask policy or demographic factors. Mean COVID-19 rates for states with at least 75% mask adherence in the preceding month was 109.26 per 100,000 compared to 249.99 per 100,000 for those with less adherence. Our analysis suggests high adherence to mask wearing could be a key factor in reducing the spread of COVID-19. This association between high mask adherence and reduced COVID-19 rates should influence policy makers and public health officials to focus on ways to improve mask adherence across the population in order to mitigate the spread of COVID-19.

Difficult to say as at that stage of the pandemic the only people not wearing masks where the MAGA type of idiot who would display riskier/stupid behaviour regardless, like attend a Trump rally. So mask adherance could be incidental to that outcome rather than the cause of it and, to be fair, even that study says 'could be' as a disclaimer rather than 'is'.

 

[Tubey]

I think in the mask debate there seems to be a lot of black and white thinking. “If it’s not perfect it’s not worth it”. Plenty of evidence out there for the effectiveness of masks.

No it's the opposite of that for me - it's saying there's a bigger picture to think of other than whether from a purely epidemiological point of view mask wearing is effective. It could be 10% more effective at stopping particle spread, but then wearing them leads to people doing 20% more riskier activities.

It was sort of a no-brainer to mandate them early in the pandemic as you wanted to instil a sense of vigilance and awareness in people so as to get the actual desired outcome of social distancing; masks were handy in that respect, a constant reminder. But now, when people generally don't give a toss/are mass vaccinated, it seems a bit less useful to say the least.

To be honest, the best way to reduce the spread now would be to not mandate mask wearing and constantly fearmonger the population into thinking they're going to catch it if they go the corner shop, because no bugger is wearing a mask... which is bizarrely what is actually happening. I don't know if that's by design, but I can't think of a more effective way of doing it at this stage of the pandemic.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Difficult to say as at that stage of the pandemic the only people not wearing masks where the MAGA type of idiot who would display riskier/stupid behaviour regardless, like attend a Trump rally. So mask adherance could be incidental to that outcome rather than the cause of it and, to be fair, even that study says 'could be' as a disclaimer rather than 'is'.

It is a difficult subject to study because of all co-founding factors, that is why I found the Bangladesh study so good and persuasive.

You apparently do not so until we get a similar study meeting the restrictions you have applied (Western, urban, non MAGA) I guess we are at an impasse.

 

[BlueToff]

Really what’s the point of getting the vaccine anyway, if people can walk into a pub, club, restraunt or gig without a mask or a Covid passport now. If say that changed over night and entry was granted only to those vaccinated with proof via passport and unvaccinated required a antigen cert, I think that encourages people to get vaccinated - as they won’t want to do antigen testing every day if they want a pint, meal or go to a gig etc.

I think the problem with the introduction in the U.K. mate is it’s locking the door after the horse is bolted, like @Billy Dean said in Germany it’s common practice and accepted norm that you either need your vaccine passport or negative antigen cert to access hospitality or entertainment. It’s an accepted norm because it has always been the case, in the U.K. it would be considered regressive. Doesn’t make it any less of an apt strategy I think.

This is seems to be the reoccurring point, seems like its imbedded in the psyche that vaccinations = normal life and no risks or worries, when really despite great protection, other safety measures in key periods may need to be considered and introduced. I think thats a mental journey for a lot of society as the winter unfolds. It’s a good question - what motivates pele to get vaccinated? Is it to protect self? Protect others? Protect the country? Get it because everyone is? Or your bored of lock down and want to do stuff? Probably all those things are true.

But it’s irrelevent in a way, we are almost 20 months into this, we’ve expierenced much, seen trends and learned a lot to manage risk at this stage we should be wiser - we should be able to keep,society and sectors open with a range of measures some I listed earlier, like I say I see things like antigen testing or passports for access to hospitality and entertainment as key over the winter in particular.

But as I keep pointing out mate, the government back in the summer were the first place in Europe to say they'd introduce it, and then there was uproar and they bottled it. Just go back to July/August. People saying they have conveniently forgotten that are just doing it because they hate the Tories (like I do), but it was going to be in place. The mistake they made was bottling it.

 

[coollino]

Nothing better than leaving the old wellington boots at home ♡

i love how you can appear out of nowhere at any whiff hahaha