Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Leylo]

When they moved to the 12 week gap it was for both vaccines, that they would be given within 12 weeks. You said there was evidence the government isn't sticking to their strategy as people you know got it in 6-7 weeks.

I am pointing out that this isn't a change in strategy, the government is sticking to what it said it would do at the end of December.

My father in law is in his eighties and vulnerable ,12 weeks gone no second vaccine they've had trouble all week trying to get his second jab. Defo not keeping to the 12 week rule imo

 

[tsubaki]

When they moved to the 12 week gap it was for both vaccines, that they would be given within 12 weeks. You said there was evidence the government isn't sticking to their strategy as people you know got it in 6-7 weeks.

I am pointing out that this isn't a change in strategy, the government is sticking to what it said it would do at the end of December.

sorry for dual reply posting but to add to my point above about when these second doses would be given:

To help us deliver our public health duties identified above,we need to vaccinate as many people as quickly as possible, including our frontline health and care workforce. All vaccination sites must with immediate effect, ensure all second dose appointments that have not already been rescheduled must be rearranged.

This means all appointments to receive the second dose must be rescheduled, with recipients to be booked in for a second dose in the 12th week.

This includes second dose arrangements for both patients and health and care staff,and will enable us to protect double the number of frontline staff in half the time. A standard operating procedure to support vaccination rollout to staff was published on 7 January and can be found here. Communications material for hospital hubs and local vaccination services to support the rescheduling of appointments will be reissued to your communications leads.

(from here - https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavi...d-dose-of-covid-19-vaccinations-11-jan-21.pdf )

 

[Neiler]

But you keep blaming the wrong people and excusing the EU. They screwed up. Now they want to blame anyone except themselves. They were not naive, they were the slow, ponderous bully trying to get a good deal and continued to negotiate prices while the U.K. facilities were built and starting production runs. They just cannot admit it. Unfortunately you are now making the excuses for them and attempting to blame the USA and U.K. .Even now they are making a pigs ear of it by suggesting that the USA is effectively imposing an export ban, then going to them cap in hand asking for any spare vaccines. Not being polite of course, oh no, first attack them, then demand vaccines. These people in the EU, all second raters to a man and woman, are a waste of space.....

Wouldn’t agree with that mate. I think they’ve been massively naive, far to nice. It’s like this AZ haven’t produced 75% of its contracted vaccines to the EU this quarter. 3 production plants in the EU and 1 in the U.K. are supplying the U.K. despite the three plants in Europe being contractually named to provide the EU supply. The U.K. have refused to export anything from the U.K. plant, but happy to import from the EU. So if the EU took the same approach 75% of AZ supply to the U.K. would be cut off. Half the jabs in the U.K. are coming from the EU. The U.K. have allowed 0 exports out of the country - if that is ok, should the EU not do the same.....

Then there is biotech the EU was the main contributor to the Pfizer vaccine, developed in Germany, should the EU turn nationalism and turn off the supply outside the EU.

In my opinion definitely not, it’s morally wrong and I’d be disappointed in the EU and for me it’s reputation would be tarnished if it did that. But that is exactly what the U.K. and US have done, their governments for me have really taken a reputation hit for me.

What should the EU do, respond in kind, no, the EU needs to be bigger, it needs to be better then both the U.K. and US here - the issue is too important - both countries were in a desperate situation more so then the EU, empathy and compassion needs to be shown.

But there will be long term consequences here. Once bitten twice shy. Vaccine procurement and roll outs are going to be with us rolling for the next three to five years and if the boundaries of the system of this have been drawn by nationalism, the EU won’t be caught again or offer boundless compassion, I fear things are going to get a lot tighter in the block in the time ahead for those wishing to interact with it for procurement for their roll outs.

 

[peteblue]

Yes, I do think AZ told porkies. Sorry for repeating myself but I do think they've overpromised on this - probably on most of their contracts.

The promised ‘best endeavours’ or ‘best efforts’ in the contract and that’s exactly what they are doing. The product for the EU was coming from a plant that was not up to speed or giving the correct yield. The manufacturing plant for the U.K., because it was set up earlier, was functional but the product was destined, and written in a contract, for the U.K. It’s black and white. The EU screwed up and AZ did the best they could for them, as per the contract....

 

[SussexToffee]

Hospital data:

Another good day with falls almost across the board.

UK total:

Patients 8469 - it was 39, 248 at the peak on 18 Jan - (fall of 30, 779 in 51 days)

Ventilators 1240 - it was 4077 at the peak on 24 Jan - (fall of 2837 in 45 days)

England only:-

Patients: down 476 in day to 6975 v 9594 last week

Peak was 34, 336 on 18 Jan (fall 27, 361 in 51 days)

Ventilators: Down in day 50 to 1137 v 1507 last week

Peak was 3736 on 24 Jan (fall 2599 in 45 days)

Regions:

Patient // Ventilators // change in past 24 hours and v last week

East down 40 to 669 v 964 // up 1 to 108 v 128

London down 81 to 1400 v 1861 // down 19 to 338 v479

Midlands down 88 to 1565 v 2181 // down 6 to 251 v 312

NE & Yorks down 139 to 1082 v 1629// down 20 to 145 v 199

North West down 49 to 1118 v 1447 // down 3 to 138 v 174

South East down 54 to 883 v 1184 // down 3 to 115 v 160

South West down 25 to 258 v 405 // stays at 41 v 55

 

[tsubaki]

The promised ‘best endeavours’ or ‘best efforts’ in the contract and that’s exactly what they are doing. The product for the EU was coming from a plant that was not up to speed or giving the correct yield. The manufacturing plant for the U.K., because it was set up earlier, was functional but the product was destined, and written in a contract, for the U.K. It’s black and white. The EU screwed up and AZ did the best they could for them, as per the contract....

Again pete, a firm cannot say something is their "best endeavours" when after seven days of rows the "best endeavours" turn out to be several million more than the first "best endeavours".

 

[Wizard]

sorry for dual reply posting but to add to my point above about when these second doses would be given:



(from here - https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavi...d-dose-of-covid-19-vaccinations-11-jan-21.pdf )

Fair enough. But stating that they should be given within 12 weeks gives them the flexibility should things change in terms of supply, rollout etc. I just don't see this as a change in strategy. 12 weeks was to get as many people the first jab, not because it was necessarily the optimal gap. The left the option there that people could get the second dose sooner if the situation allowed.

 

[peteblue]

Wouldn’t agree with that mate. I think they’ve been massively naive, far to nice. It’s like this AZ haven’t produced 75% of its contracted vaccines to the EU this quarter. 3 production plants in the EU and 1 in the U.K. are supplying the U.K. despite the three plants in Europe being contractually named to provide the EU supply. The U.K. have refused to export anything from the U.K. plant, but happy to import from the EU. So if the EU took the same approach 75% of AZ supply to the U.K. would be cut off. Half the jabs in the U.K. are coming from the EU. The U.K. have allowed 0 exports out of the country - if that is ok, should the EU not do the same.....

Then there is biotech the EU was the main contributor to the Pfizer vaccine, developed in Germany, should the EU turn nationalism and turn off the supply outside the EU.

In my opinion definitely not, it’s morally wrong and I’d be disappointed in the EU and it’s reputation would be tarnished for me if it did that. But that is exactly what the U.K. and US have done, their governments for me have really taken a reputation hit for me.

What should the EU do, respond in kind, no, the EU needs to be bigger, it needs to be better then both the U.K. and US here - the issue is too important - both countries were in a desperate situation more so then the EU, empathy and compassion needs to be shown.

But there will be long term consequences here. Once bitten twice shy. Vaccine procurement and roll outs are going to be with us rolling for the next three to five years and if the boundaries of the system of this have been drawn by nationalism, the EU won’t be caught again or offer boundless compassion, I fear things are going to get a lot tighter in the block in the time ahead for those wishing to interact with it for procurement for their roll outs.

The U.K. are not forbidding any vaccine from leaving the country. AZ are delivering it to wherever their contracts say it should go. It’s very simple.....and as for any ‘consequences’, I think the U.K. fully understand the vindictive nature of the EU, hence why we are investing in our own capability....”boundless compassion” hahahaha.......

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Hahaha, no as romantic as kissing him with my mask on once we were done with the shots.

Talking about romance, where is my prize? I'm going to begin adding some late fees for the long lasting delay

Just need a bit of time Sass this lockdown has resulted in me no longer being able to fit in my xxxs thong give me a month or two once the gyms reopen ♡

 

[Wizard]

My father in law is in his eighties and vulnerable ,12 weeks gone no second vaccine they've had trouble all week trying to get his second jab. Defo not keeping to the 12 week rule imo

That's not good at all but that must be an issue in the specific authority he lives in. That's really bad that they haven't sorted it having been made aware.

 

[BlueToff]

Yep. A gentle stroll in the park with a pal is one thing, festivals and large spectator sports are another.

I am no totally wed on the idea of 10000 fans for the final games of the season neither.

For one, it seems largely pointless, and for another, it could give an advantage to the home team.

edit. Although it could be argued that as a data collection exercise followed by a natural circuit break has legs, circa like the schools.

There's been plans to push the last few games back so every team gets a crowd once.

 

[BlueToff]

Exactly which is why I think Scotland's rules make sense. 4 people from 2 bubbles meeting outdoors is extremely low risk. Allowing people to mix outdoors reduces the likelihood of them meeting indoors instead.

The lockdown has been in place for 2 months and people are starting to take risks. If you allow lower risk activities you're reducing the likelihood of more risky events.

Isn't that what we can do from April 12th?

The whole point of what Whitty is saying this week is that, stick to the plan, because it's the best chance we have of it working.

June 21st might be too early. We'll only find out closer to the time. But there's nothing stopping me going to the gigs I've got booked on July 11th and 12th (both outdoor, around 8,000 capacity) if they are allowed to go ahead.

If not, so be it.

 

[Neiler]

My father in law is in his eighties and vulnerable ,12 weeks gone no second vaccine they've had trouble all week trying to get his second jab. Defo not keeping to the 12 week rule imo

Wow really, that’s mental.

 

[peteblue]

Again pete, a firm cannot say something is their "best endeavours" when after seven days of rows the "best endeavours" turn out to be several million more than the first "best endeavours".

You evidently know nothing about manufacturing or production. Product cannot just appear from nowhere. It has to be made, somewhere. It is not hard to imagine that these places are working 24/7 providing source material is fully available. So, where did the 9 million come from. Either AZ broke the contract with the U.K. (they didn’t) or Boris gave them some (he didn’t) or they put in additional work at the EU plant and promised to bring forward 9 million that were scheduled for the following quarter (they did)......they used best endeavours to affect the production schedule a couple of months down the line.....

 

[BlueToff]

Wow be a brave politician wo goes against that advice.

Makes perfect sense.

Wonder what he meant by the vaccines not working, bit vague and open to subjective conjecture.

Tbf Neiler - and not having a dig - all he's saying is what he said on Feb 22nd when the roadmap was announced.

There's gonna be a spike, but the roadmap is planned so that the spikes will, if all goes well, be manageable.

However, we can't rush it and the dates are the 'earliest' they possibly can be. No more leeway in the sense of pushing them forward.

Re. the vaccines, he was stressing yesterday about people not taking up the option, and that the virus will naturally find them (scare tactics maybe, but needs' must - also, it's true, the virus will find a host it can survive in).

But we know the vaccines don't 100% protect against infection. They do protect against serious illness, though.