Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Barnfred 55]

Again, I'd urge caution as a lot of articles and reports are based on narrow/incomplete scientific analysis. There is no great scientific consensus about a lot of the response to Covid-19 - most scientists will be non committal about a lot of things as it's just not known.

However, to address the issue in question, if you are going to allowing shielding people outside, it should be based upon considered information communicated to the public and in line with a scheduled model of relaxation.

As it is, it seems completely plucked out of the air along with a number of other announcements, as such, those who will likely be invested in and engage closely with those shielding - namely the charitable sector - haven't been given chance to either input into or be made aware of the decision.

Ridiculous really and, objectively, more evidence of a confused and scatter gun approach to Government decision making.

I recall now, it was on the Jeremy Vine show on Friday, and Sarah Jarvis, the apparent resident GP on the show was giving her view in it. The report didn't go into who produced the surveys, but the Dr was generally in favour of decision to remove them from the "high risk" list, and if you're familiar with the show you'll be aware that she isn't always as supportive of government decisions. Should they have discussed it with the charities concerned first?, in the ideal world probably yes. This is far from an ideal world we are living in at the moment though and they probably have a 1000 things more important to do in fairness. I'm sure the people themselves who are affected by the decision are most probably relieved and happy that the are no longer concerned higher risk, and are now able to go about a more normal lifestyle than before.

I agree the governments decision making has become haphazard, and the fact that the 4 countries that comprise the UK are doing their own thing is confusing matters immensely. For me, I can just concentrate on what England is doing as I have no intention of travelling to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland any time soon, and if everybody else in the same boat did the same, then things would be a lot clearer.

I made a post yesterday when I said that the media, social media and, to a lesser extent, opposition politicians are making deadlines out of government targets. This is a bad thing IMO as it is effectively forcing the government into making political decisions rather than relying on science to determine what happens next. They have rushed through the TTI system before it was ready or indeed had been properly tested, and they are opening up schools and certain sectors of the economy at a time when the disease is still far too prevalent in the community with daily new infection rates still far too high. Both terrible decisions, and made because they had been pushed into a corner and didn't want to lose face or admit being wrong.

However I disagree with you on the decision to give the shielded people a little bit more freedom, especially those who have no outdoor space of their own. God knows the mental challenges these poor people must be going through being cooped up inside day after day. If anything it should have been made weeks earlier, once it became known that it is highly unlikely you are at risk of catching the disease outdoors provided you socially distance.

 

[jaycee]

They’re allowed to do it within social distance guidelines.

Stuff like that will be happening all over Europe. I wouldn’t do it but I’m not going to cast judgement.

I know they are allowed,the reason is why,for a lot of people its an excuse to get out but theres better ways to do it than line up for jarg furniture

 

[brieverton]

I watched two lectures from Chris Whitty recently on You Tube - both on pandemics. One was about two years old and the other very recently, in the midst of the current event.

On both occasions, he comes across as authoritiative and interesting, someone I'd be very happy to have as CMO in exactly these circumstances.

To be a fly on the wall in these SAGE meetings - you cannot expect complete unanimity from the scientific community on something as complex as this. But my personal view is that lockdown easing is very much on the excessively risky side and caution should always be the the foremost consideration.

At what point will a senior public health official break ranks with the strategy and say too much, too soon? It would need a resignation to hammer that point home.

 

[peteblue]

It's quite incredible how things have gone so wrong so quickly. It seems they're making bad decision after bad decision at the moment.

Either SAGE, the NHS and PHE are competent to speak on behalf of the medical fraternity or they are not. If they are not then replace them, if they are then let them get on with the job and stop all the second guessing. It seems that every man and his dog wants to ‘be involved’ in every decision and that ‘Twitter’ is the formal channel to raise medical concerns...ridiculous.........

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I agree with a lot of what D says,the government handling of the initial outbreak was really poor,the leadership throughout has been invisible,the constant mixed messages being delivered,this new push to make it seem things are almost back to normal reeks of pure monetary driven,but at the same time if certain groups of people think its a green light to party on the beach then that is their own stupidity,I wouldnt class myself as being in a vunerable group,no underlying health issues,not in a job that would expose me to infection,but I have stuck to my routine of shopping for food once a fortnight,when I think the shops will be relatively quiet,my exercise is walking through the cemertary and park when I know it will be quiet and if I have to cross the road to avoid close contact i will,just because the country is run by idiots doesnt mean you have to act like one

The Tory Government have well and truly messed this up and are now in what the hell mode with easing lock down, they are just gambling now, in the hope those who would vote for them forget the deaths when the election comes round..

 

[Jebus_lives]

I recall now, it was on the Jeremy Vine show on Friday, and Sarah Jarvis, the apparent resident GP on the show was giving her view in it. The report didn't go into who produced the surveys, but the Dr was generally in favour of decision to remove them from the "high risk" list, and if you're familiar with the show you'll be aware that she isn't always as supportive of government decisions. Should they have discussed it with the charities concerned first?, in the ideal world probably yes. This is far from an ideal world we are living in at the moment though and they probably have a 1000 things more important to do in fairness. I'm sure the people themselves who are affected by the decision are most probably relieved and happy that the are no longer concerned higher risk, and are now able to go about a more normal lifestyle than before.

I agree the governments decision making has become haphazard, and the fact that the 4 countries that comprise the UK are doing their own thing is confusing matters immensely. For me, I can just concentrate on what England is doing as I have no intention of travelling to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland any time soon, and if everybody else in the same boat did the same, then things would be a lot clearer.

I made a post yesterday when I said that the media, social media and, to a lesser extent, opposition politicians are making deadlines out of government targets. This is a bad thing IMO as it is effectively forcing the government into making political decisions rather than relying on science to determine what happens next. They have rushed through the TTI system before it was ready or indeed had been properly tested, and they are opening up schools and certain sectors of the economy at a time when the disease is still far too prevalent in the community with daily new infection rates still far too high. Both terrible decisions, and made because they had been pushed into a corner and didn't want to lose face or admit being wrong.

However I disagree with you on the decision to give the shielded people a little bit more freedom, especially those who have no outdoor space of their own. God knows the mental challenges these poor people must be going through being cooped up inside day after day. If anything it should have been made weeks earlier, once it became known that it is highly unlikely you are at risk of catching the disease outdoors provided you socially distance.

Just on point one

Without wanting to burst your bubble- but in my experience, if you've spoken to one doctor, you've spoken to one doctor. I wouldn't take the opinion of 1 doctor or 3 doctors on YouTube as gospel about anything.

And if track and trace was as incontrovertible as you say across the medical and scientific community, why wasn't the UK adopting the strategy from day 1?

Regarding the rest, I think by and large the stupid targets the Government are setting are of their own making, purely to grab headlines or deflect from them...

Can't meet 100,000 on a regular basis, ask us again in a month and we'll be doing 200,000. It's goading the media and opposition and it's childish because they haven't got any other substance.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Either SAGE, the NHS and PHE are competent to speak on behalf of the medical fraternity or they are not. If they are not then replace them, if they are then let them get on with the job and stop all the second guessing. It seems that every man and his dog wants to ‘be involved’ in every decision and that ‘Twitter’ is the formal channel to raise medical concerns...ridiculous.........

They all do completely different things...why would they talk on behalf of a single fraternity?

Even suggesting the NHS is one organisation is ridiculous.

Go and do some research before looking for targets.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Teachers specifically...

I would be absolutely shocked if any teachers who are currently shielding would be forced back into work by any school. They would either be furloughed or some way would be found for them to work from home.

You were "unsure" about a previous post of mine. Was it in relation to my saying that there are some not very nice employers out there, or my comment that the system would protect any shielding person that they tried to force back into the workplace.?

 

[PhilM]

Just on point one

Regarding the rest, I think by and large the stupid targets the Government are setting are of their own making, purely to grab headlines or deflect from them...

Can't meet 100,000 on a regular basis, ask us again in a month and we'll be doing 200,000. It's goading the media and opposition and it's childish because they haven't got any other substance.

I have no issue with them setting targets if there's a need for such a target (clinically or to instil momentum), however like you say I doubt that's their motive.

For example, if you do 80,000 tests because you don't need to do 100,000 tests a day then that's brilliant; if you're doing 100,000 but you need 150,000 that's bad.

In reality, the capability/capacity is the most important factor rather than simply setting a number of tests in which they want done without discussing the need.

 

[orchard]

I would be absolutely shocked if any teachers who are currently shielding would be forced back into work by any school. They would either be furloughed or some way would be found for them to work from home.

You were "unsure" about a previous post of mine. Was it in relation to my saying that there are some not very nice employers out there, or my comment that the system would protect any shielding person that they tried to force back into the workplace.?

Your faith in how robust the system is mate.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I have no issue with them setting targets if there's a need for such a target (clinically or to instil momentum), however like you say I doubt that's their motive.

For example, if you do 80,000 tests because you don't need to do 100,000 tests a day then that's brilliant; if you're doing 100,000 but you need 150,000 that's bad.

In reality, the capability/capacity is the most important factor rather than simply setting a number of tests in which they want done without discussing the need.

Poorly worded in my I initial post. I meant the pressure is of their own making due to the targets set.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I would be absolutely shocked if any teachers who are currently shielding would be forced back into work by any school. They would either be furloughed or some way would be found for them to work from home.

You were "unsure" about a previous post of mine. Was it in relation to my saying that there are some not very nice employers out there, or my comment that the system would protect any shielding person that they tried to force back into the workplace.?

I have a friend who is shielding and has a new employee set to start (delayed because of lockdown) who is 60 and has diabetes, who has also been shielding.

Both are going back into the office next week. The new starter is relying on public transport to get into the office.

The reason is because the employer doesn't have enough VPN to go around and the director of the team doesn't like working from home and thinks it'll be better for everyone to be back in.

 

[peteblue]

They all do completely different things...why would they talk on behalf of a single fraternity?

Even suggesting the NHS is one organisation is ridiculous.

Go and do some research before looking for targets.

Shouldn’t you be working or something. You know, being a cog in the NHS machine, I thought you might be busy....

 

[Jebus_lives]

Shouldn’t you be working or something. You know, being a cog in the NHS machine, I thought you might be busy....

Shouldn't you be busy talking to the upper echelons of society about a solution to Covid-19?

Presumably you've never been in a meeting where parts of the agenda aren't pertinent to you...

At any rate it's be on here or participate in Tik Tok dancing.

 

[COYBL25]

Shouldn’t you be working or something. You know, being a cog in the NHS machine, I thought you might be busy....

Those pens can’t push themselves lol