Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[davek]

Yes Dave I do know what the term decimate means, both in the historical and modern sense of the word. We know that if people in care homes aren’t immunised (and even if they are) then flu can be just as deadly.

It stands to reason that a virus which has no vaccine will be just as dangerous. Hence how an expert can say it’s expected.

I’m not sure if your paranoid ramblings are supposed to be funny, however the entire thing is so transparent as nothing but a stick to attack your ‘enemies’ with that it’s actually disrespectful.

Clown.

 

[davek]

Is it really a different scale Dave? The deaths we hear about is people who die with corona, not just of corona, if you transferred the same logic to flu for 1 year you'd have many multiples of the usual number. For example if someone broke into my house and shot me in the head and the autopsy reviled I was covid positive even without symptoms I'd be included in the daily numbers of covid deaths as it's a notifiable disease, same principles do not apply to seasonal flu if it did the world would have to lock down every year.

Jesus wept.

FFS, are you saying what the other feller said: that Covid deaths in care homes this year are as expected in their volume as flu related deaths? How many years do we have 1/3rd of all deaths arising out of care homes?

 

[COYBL25]

I've mentioned a few times mate what my missus does, she's a director in local government for older people and she said she can't believe some of the stuff spouted on here that I've mentioned to her in regards to care homes, the elderly etc.

I can't tell you any specific things mate as she doesn't tell me because it's all obviously confidential.

Some of it`s just mad.

It`s almost like some people believe that the elderly are almost being slung out of hospital and just dumped back into care homes.

There`s just so many hoops to jump through to get to the discharge stage, hence why hospitals end up with elderly patients blocking beds, as the criteria for discharge hasn`t been met.

My missus used to be a District Nurse ( she`s now hospital based ) and a big part of her working week was working on care plans for elderly patients who were being discharged from hospital to their own homes and nursing / sheltered accommodation.

However that doesn`t fit in with the MURDER, DEATH and SCUM agenda being peddled by a few on here does it ????

 

[spectateur]

Is it really a different scale Dave? The deaths we hear about is people who die with corona, not just of corona, if you transferred the same logic to flu for 1 year you'd have many multiples of the usual number. For example if someone broke into my house and shot me in the head and the autopsy reviled I was covid positive even without symptoms I'd be included in the daily numbers of covid deaths as it's a notifiable disease, same principles do not apply to seasonal flu if it did the world would have to lock down every year.

Please stop equating covid 19 with the flu. Main difference in effect is that there is an established and effective vaccine against flu. Here, a free shot is offered to all over 60. The take up is around 65% and helps keep the desease at a minimum expecially in the EPIHAD centres.

 

[tsubaki]

And I've told you, twice now, that it was a specific part of the BBC article that I was referring to, and I would have done it whoever had tweeted it. It wasn't about Farage, it was about people calling the police to snitch on their neighbours. If I didn't make that clear in my original post I certainly did in my next.

You see what you want to see.

Yes, thats because I can read what you posted. You were then (and are still) talking about political matters.

This isn't rocket science you know.

 

[Neiler]

Coronavirus: Pub customers hid in cupboards during raid

Police raided the Pitsmoor Hotel in Sheffield after reports it was still serving customers.

www.bbc.co.uk

Some never shut it would seem.

FFS.

FFS @peteblue

 

[davek]

We are talking a different scale yes.

I think the point being here though is that every death is being counted towards it. A patient can have heart failure due to long term heart issues but is being classed as a covid death as they caught it whilst in hospital.

Is that common sense?

So the figure is skewed beyond recognition. There is no way of knowing what the death rate actually is because there has never been a logical split between cause of death.

I bet you that if you looked at the figures , there is a lot of other deaths that have mysteriously dropped in the statistics for the past 2 months.

No one is doing that though. Deaths recorded from care homes are counted only if positively tested for it.

 

[tsubaki]

No one is doing that though. Deaths recorded from care homes are counted only if positively tested for it.

This does lead on to a point about whether "in the community" deaths are using those same rules.

If they are, then one would imagine the vast majority of them can only be tests done post-mortem (and so they are not going to be "daily" figures but probably have some lag).

 

[Tipp blue]

Jesus wept.

FFS, are you saying what the other feller said: that Covid deaths in care homes this year are as expected in their volume as flu related deaths? How many years do we have 1/3rd of all deaths arising out of care homes?

No that's not what I said at all, firstly there is a vaccine for flu that most people in care homes would get. What I am saying is that dying with something and dying of something are totally different things that are not differentiated with covid but are with flu, this way of calculating deaths of covid vs flu is either making covid seem much worse of flu seem much less worse.

 

[Tipp blue]

Please stop equating covid 19 with the flu. Main difference in effect is that there is an established and effective vaccine against flu. Here, a free shot is offered to all over 60. The take up is around 65% and helps keep the desease at a minimum expecially in the EPIHAD centres.

I didn't equate it to the flu I compared it to the flu and made a simple point on how deaths for both are counted and why is it deemed ok to tot up numbers for covid to include everyone who dies while testing positive but the same method is not applied to flu.

 

[Tipp blue]

No one is doing that though. Deaths recorded from care homes are counted only if positively tested for it.

And even if it's not the cause of death, that's the issue I have.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

And I've told you, twice now, that it was a specific part of the BBC article that I was referring to, and I would have done it whoever had tweeted it. It wasn't about Farage, it was about people calling the police to snitch on their neighbours. If I didn't make that clear in my original post I certainly did in my next.

You see what you want to see.

Pot kettle black...

 

[Neiler]

I'm not sure if everybody on here quite understands just how our care/nursing home system works. I know you are a similar age to me so may have had parents who have "gone through" the system or even part of the system now. It's also important to distinguish between care homes and independent living arrangements in which elderly people live in communities.

Essentially people go in there once it has been decided that they can no longer be cared for in their own home, bearing in mind that most will already have had carers coming into their homes previously. They are mostly infirm to some degree or have some form of dementia. I have personal experience of 3 family members in care homes, my mum, who lived 3 months, my mum in law, who lived 10 months, and my wife's uncle, who lasted nearly 2 years. The average time spent in care homes is around 12 months, so my experience is pretty much indicative of that. So an average size care home with 100 residents would, on average, experience 2 deaths per week. All families are asked to sign an agreement on resuscitation/non resuscitation within 48 hours of admittance, and once the resident dies, such is the demand for beds that families are requested to have the room vacated of personal belongings by midnight the same day.

The standards of care homes varies greatly, and for most of us who rely on state subsidised beds it can be a heart wrenching experience for families as they have to choose between the few beds on offer. But the bottom line here is that the staff in these homes are dedicated, caring and very experienced in dispensing palliative care. In the event that any residents actually contract CV-19, then they are already in the best place to see out their final days. The majority are already so ill that hospitalisation would be pointless and they would be taking up an ICU bed of somebody else who would be more likely to pull through.

The worst thing about this virus for people in care homes is that they are currently prevented from seeing their loved ones. Although I believe they are looking at ways of lifting these restrictions with the use of PPE and social distancing.

While recognising you may have expierence mate, that’s a very narrow view of residential care, yes they do support end of life care but many people can and do live a rich life of worth with supported independence. There are varying degrees of limits that impact people, so a plan of game of enablement to maximise quality of life is key. You make it sound like loads of people with a few months waiting around to die, I often these environments are rich, empowering and enabling, they form their communities bonds and relationships, there is so much wisdom in these places. That sounds not to be your experience and that regrettable and unfortunate.

There is something uncomfortable about how you frame residential care and the ultimate fragility of life there as a universal narrative, weighed against the absolute abandonment of society to residential care settings during this. It’s not a case of people are waiting to die anyway, so it may as well be this.

Also just to say family can’t sign any resuscitation order for their family member, unless you have a EPA in place and even then that power has to be granted.

 

[Emlynsqueakyvoice]

Is that a fact or is it just your opinion?

He's blagging mate. He's always and only blagging. A complete bluff.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

No one is doing that though. Deaths recorded from care homes are counted only if positively tested for it.

Department of health death total in all settings = 26,097

Financial Times death total in all settings using all the available data = 47,000

The Daily Mail came up with a figure of 33,000 last night and that came from Government own statistics.

Anyone with an ounce integrity would be asking why are there such a big margins...