He's underachieved with the teams he's had.
He's overachieved to build those teams in the financial conditions.
CONFIRMED: Moyes Leaving - All Reaction Here
- Thread starter GrandOldTeam
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He's underachieved with the teams he's had.
He's overachieved to build those teams in the financial conditions.
People also underestimate the constant struggle that is keeping us there. It's not like putting together a single good squad one year entitles you to stay at that level forever. When you're forced sell your best players every year, you have to replace them every year. With a pitiful net spend and often a negative one.
njligernj
Player Valuation: £15m
Genuine question: where would Everton's total spend on wages rank in world football? I found a list from two years ago which had us at 26th. We might be a bit higher now (and I'm not sure the way the list was done made sense). If we are 20-25th in total wages is having one player or manager in the top 12 really that much of a stretch? Not like we're 100th in total wages but pay a manager a huge amount -- we pay more on wages than most clubs. Unfortunately, of the 20 or so clubs ahead of us in wages, almost 50% of them are Prem clubs.
Okay ... you can count on me.
Uh-oh ... you're sleep-posting again! Nobody wake him up suddenly it can have negative effects.
Even the CL teams will lose a one-off game to an inferior side. Wigan and Leeds don't finish above us in the league -- if they did you'd have a point.
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He is one of best paid managers becuase the owner lumps it all on the manager becuase Bill+co cannot move the club forward out of stagnation.
Moyes goes, new man comes and then the fan,s fix wears off after 12 months and we will be back on here talking about how the board need to go.
It,s like sticking a new pair of tyres on a broken down car. Why don,nt we deal with the issue in front of us and stop beeing in denial by getting a new manager fix.
Moyes goes, new man comes and then the fan,s fix wears off after 12 months and we will be back on here talking about how the board need to go.
It,s like sticking a new pair of tyres on a broken down car. Why don,nt we deal with the issue in front of us and stop beeing in denial by getting a new manager fix.
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hktoffee
Birds of a feather flock together
I say 4th/5th is the highest we can aim. Even we finish 6th/7th is a good achievement BECAUSE we have no money to spend. We can't complete as Kenwright has no cash. Moyes keeps us in the top tie of the table for the last 11 years (more of less). Personally, he has enhanced the status of our club since he took over. We are no longer a team fighting relegation like the one in the 90s.
By god I'm blue
Banned at own request
Moyes has done a great job in making Everton one of the most consistent league performers for a good few years now, despite the club not having a hope in hell of actually winning it, I don't think any of that can be denied by anyone.
However, his record in the cups is poor and that is the only thing people can really have a gripe with him about.
People might not like the style of football the club play, and he like any other manager on the planet can be hauled over the coals at times for bad decisions and bad or non existent tactics.
But, it is a results based game. So I can only go back and refer to where he has left Everton from a league position and for that I am willing to forgive him for his short comings in the cups.
Forget his wages for a minute and forget the style of play. If we won the cup playing hoofball all the way to the final and won in from a game where we played long ball for 90 minutes, nobody would actually give a shiny poop about that, such is the fickle nature of fans.
That said, I still think he is probably better moving on though, and I will always be grateful for him making Everton a serious top flight team again, which they were not for 10 years previous to him arriving.
However, his record in the cups is poor and that is the only thing people can really have a gripe with him about.
People might not like the style of football the club play, and he like any other manager on the planet can be hauled over the coals at times for bad decisions and bad or non existent tactics.
But, it is a results based game. So I can only go back and refer to where he has left Everton from a league position and for that I am willing to forgive him for his short comings in the cups.
Forget his wages for a minute and forget the style of play. If we won the cup playing hoofball all the way to the final and won in from a game where we played long ball for 90 minutes, nobody would actually give a shiny poop about that, such is the fickle nature of fans.
That said, I still think he is probably better moving on though, and I will always be grateful for him making Everton a serious top flight team again, which they were not for 10 years previous to him arriving.
Hmmm. 02/03 - 7th. Massive over-achievement.
03/04 - relative under-achievement, but we were still pretty gash from the Smith days, in fairness. We were never a top half squad back then.
04/05 - Probably the best example of over-achievement in decades.
05/06 - Underachievement on money spent on the likes of Beattie, Davies etc. The only real example of average transfer dealing.
06/07 - I'd say another over-achievement. We were denied 5th by a shocking decision on the final day.
07/08 - Carling Cup Semi, European run, 5th in the league. Over-achievement despite decent net spend in the summer.
08/09 - 5th and a cup final where we beat 1st and 2nd and 6th in the league only to lose by the odd goal to 3rd in the final? We had a good squad, but the teams we finished ahead of had a lot more at their disposal.
09/10 - Under-achievement. You'd have said we'd finish above Villa here. City and Spurs had finally got money/decent managers by this point.
10/11 - Underachievement. I think we were all guilty (including Moyes) of over-estimating that squad. No cup run was an extra disappointment.
11/12 - Neutral. Decent enough cup run and the right league position.
Overall, I reckon he's overachieved considerably even with the teams he's had. Focusing specifically on cup success, I'd say it was a slight under-achievement, only reaching two semis and a final in his time, but not catastrophically bad. I think he's done brilliantly in the league. You could argue the over-achieving has tailed off recently, but it's got harder to knock teams out of that top 6 as they spend more and more and we spend seemingly less and less. City's takeover was like losing a league position.
Chang Elephant
Forum God
Sack him before the Anfield derby, I'd quite like to see us win that one.
BadWool76
Player Valuation: £20m
I am sick to the back teeth if this line of spin. No matter how you want to deliver you're point he hasn't delivered anything, NADA. Its not as if he hasn't had a chance is it ? He has had plenty of chances and he has chocked in a major way.
Its precisely this type of attitude that has facilitated his own particular "held back" line of spin and excuse from day one. Either achieve at all costs or get out the way for someone who will
hktoffee
Birds of a feather flock together
What make you think others can win us a cup with zero budget?
By god I'm blue
Banned at own request
OK, out of curiousness, what do YOU expect Moyes and Everton to achieve in the current climate of football or what do you honestly think they should be achieving as a minimum?
BadWool76
Player Valuation: £20m
Stop coming up with vacant scenario's mate
Ratkiller
Player Valuation: £2.5m
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