CONFIRMED: Moyes Leaving - All Reaction Here

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Poncey football is not superior to effective football, and therefore I couldn't care less what style of football is being played as long as it is effective and brings in the necessary points.

I'd take a boring, boring 1989 Arsenal over Brendon Rogers' 'tiki-taka' bulls**t, or any other form of poncey football that ultimately leaves you rotting away in mid-table like the current Liverpool and Swansea sides.

Just another general point. You can't 'hammer' a team and end up drawing a game, like someone said we did at Fulham. Teams that have been hammered don't end the game having scored the same amount of goals as their opposition.
 
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Essex Blue said:
Poncey football is not superior to effective football, and therefore I couldn't care less what style of football is being played as long as it is effective and brings in the necessary points.

I'd take a boring, boring 1989 Arsenal over Brendon Rogers' 'tiki-taka' bulls**t, or any other form of poncey football that ultimately leaves you rotting away in mid-table like the current Liverpool and Swansea sides.

Just another general point. You can't 'hammer' a team and end up drawing a game, like someone said we did at Fulham. Teams that have been hammered don't end the game having scored the same amount of goals as their opposition.
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Sure you can.
 
One thing is clear -- Moyes' VORP* is off the charts.

I think the reason Martinez doesn't appeal to me is that logic for him being good (he's done "so well" at clubs with no money) is the same logic you'd use to justify keeping Moyes. I genuinely don't understand why anyone who wants Moyes out would possibly want someone like Martinez. Martinez to me is the pick of people who love Moyes but accept that he may have to move on. To not like Moyes but to want Martinez is baffling. What's the logic?

I realize the scale is different (Wigan have even less going for them than we do) but he is probably going down. So what is the positive there? That an average manager would have been relegated by more points than Martinez? It's a pretty thin argument (although it could well be true it's just hard to make that case). It's the kind of argument those people would likely have a fit about if you used it to defend Moyes.

People talk about his style of play but his teams never score goals (pretty sure I looked at his record a while back and his teams were close to last in goals scored every single year), he has a 27% win percentage with his current club and he's probably going to get relegated ... and yet people will NSNO all over me for wanting to keep Moyes.

nigelcoyb said:
absolute mystery how we can all recognise his shortcomings but some are terrified to try and improve with a change - voodoo stuff.
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That "mystery" has been explained literally thousands of times. Things you disagree with are not mysteries. An 8 out of 10 has shortcomings but if you fire that 8/10 you are far more likely to get something worse than better. There are a handful of 9's and 10's out there and I don't think we are likely to hire one for a variety of reasons (money, competence of BK, simple probability).

steken1 said:
I wonder who Moyes fans would like to come in if he left?
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Don't follow enough leagues to have an educated opinion. Even if we knew 100% he was leaving I'd still hesitate to offer a name. I'd generally prefer an "unknown" though -- they haven't failed yet.

By far the most likely scenario for our next manager is that he is fired after two or three years. I don't think ignoring that fact makes you a better Evertonian.

* It's one of those stats from American sports which everyone hates: Value over a replacement (average) player.
 
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Brennan said:
Sure you can.
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Hey mate, we just battered you 2-2. It's as bad as the 'USA win 1-1' headline :lol:

How on earth can you have battered a team if you were incapable of scoring more goals than them? Teams can apply pressure, but if you haven't scored more goals than the opposition then you have in no way battered them.

Applying pressure without scoring IS NOT something to write home about, it just means that their defence was sufficient enough to prevent the opposition from winning, or that the forwards weren't sufficient enough to win the game.

I look forward to the next time we 'batter' a team 2-2.
 
Carlito said:
Of the rabble that Everton will likely be choosing from, I'd probably go for Martinez. He's managing the smallest, ****test club in the history of the Premier League at a time when their owner's money has dried up. As far as I'm concerned he's doing quite well.

I can't stress enough how much I'd love going to watch an Everton team playing under the guidance of a continental tactician, but I just can't let myself start thinking that my dream appointments are even a remote possibility (Pellegrini, Mazzarri or Emery would represent incredible statements of intent) or else I won't want to renew my season ticket when Kenwright ends up bringing in Dave Jones (I'm convinced he'll be right in the frame).

Now that I've resigned myself to the fact the club won't be put up for sale until Kenwright dies, I'm leaning towards the idea that another long-term appointment is imperative if we're to avoid implosion. Whoever comes in will have to be prepared to accept things like going three years without buying a first team player, which leads me to believe someone like Laudrup isn't a good idea as he'll likely just [Poor language removed], safe in the knowledge that his name alone will guarantee another job quickly enough.

Martinez isn't the Rinus Michels character that some make him out to be, but he does have a positive philosophy and has shown loyalty to a struggling club with an old [Poor language removed] for a chairman. If nothing else I'd say he's well prepared for life at Everton.

I'm sure I'll draw criticism from the Martinez detractors that are prevalent in this thread, but after giving it a lot of thought I don't know what else is realistically out there for Everton at this point. A lower league appointment could work, but unlike Moyes they'd be walking into a dressing filled with accomplished, highly-paid internationals, rather than a gang of crocks who couldn't finish the bleep test, as was the case in 2002.
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Excellent and balanced IMO.
 
njligernj said:
One thing is clear -- Moyes' VORP* is off the charts.

I think the reason Martinez doesn't appeal to me is that logic for him being good (he's done "so well" at clubs with no money) is the same logic you'd use to justify keeping Moyes. I genuinely don't understand why anyone who wants Moyes out would possibly want someone like Martinez. Martinez to me is the pick of people who love Moyes but accept that he may have to move on. To not like Moyes but to want Martinez is baffling. What's the logic?

I realize the scale is different (Wigan have even less going for them than we do) but he is probably going down. So what is the positive there? That an average manager would have been relegated by more points than Martinez? It's a pretty thin argument (although it could well be true it's just hard to make that case). It's the kind of argument those people would likely have a fit about if you used it to defend Moyes.

People talk about his style of play but his teams never score goals (pretty sure I looked at his record a while back and his teams were close to last in goals scored every single year), he has a 27% win percentage with his current club and he's probably going to get relegated ... and yet people will NSNO all over me for wanting to keep Moyes.

That "mystery" has been explained literally thousands of times. Things you disagree with are not mysteries. An 8 out of 10 has shortcomings but if you fire that 8/10 you are far more likely to get something worse than better. There are a handful of 9's and 10's out there and I don't think we are likely to hire one for a variety of reasons (money, competence of BK, simple probability).

Don't follow enough leagues to have an educated opinion. Even if we knew 100% he was leaving I'd still hesitate to offer a name. I'd generally prefer an "unknown" though -- they haven't failed yet.

By far the most likely scenario for our next manager is that he is fired after two or three years. I don't think ignoring that fact makes you a better Evertonian.

* It's one of those stats from American sports which everyone hates: Value over a replacement (average) player.
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Fair enough. Probably the same as most people in honesty. The thing is though there's at least a fair chance he wont be here next season. Yet everytime somebody want's to talk about a replacement, bearing in mind all we can do is talk, they get ripped to shreds. I didn't even suggest Martinez for the job and had to spend 5 pages of talk convincing people he wouldn't sell our pitch to a farmer and interfere with the kids.
 
i would be a little disappointed if he stayed tbh. i dont think hes the best man for the job but the problem is getting someone who can win us things in but you cant guarantee that.

so we have the choice of remaining stable or taking a risk and maybe going up a level but of course we could end up worse off as well.

i want to take the risk
 
Moomin said:
Steve McClaren about to be sacked at FC Twente, he will now be in our price range.

New umbrella's to be launched by kitbag, quids in we will be.
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The only thing we have a realistic chance of winning is the cups. Mclaren has a better record in them than Moyes. Just sayin.
 
steken1 said:
Fair enough. Probably the same as most people in honesty. The thing is though there's at least a fair chance he wont be here next season. Yet everytime somebody want's to talk about a replacement, bearing in mind all we can do is talk, they get ripped to shreds. I didn't even suggest Martinez for the job and had to spend 5 pages of talk convincing people he wouldn't sell our pitch to a farmer and interfere with the kids.
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What makes you so sure?
 
Carlito said:
Of the rabble that Everton will likely be choosing from, I'd probably go for Martinez. He's managing the smallest, ****test club in the history of the Premier League at a time when their owner's money has dried up. As far as I'm concerned he's doing quite well.

I can't stress enough how much I'd love going to watch an Everton team playing under the guidance of a continental tactician, but I just can't let myself start thinking that my dream appointments are even a remote possibility (Pellegrini, Mazzarri or Emery would represent incredible statements of intent) or else I won't want to renew my season ticket when Kenwright ends up bringing in Dave Jones (I'm convinced he'll be right in the frame).

Now that I've resigned myself to the fact the club won't be put up for sale until Kenwright dies, I'm leaning towards the idea that another long-term appointment is imperative if we're to avoid implosion. Whoever comes in will have to be prepared to accept things like going three years without buying a first team player, which leads me to believe someone like Laudrup isn't a good idea as he'll likely just [Poor language removed], safe in the knowledge that his name alone will guarantee another job quickly enough.

Martinez isn't the Rinus Michels character that some make him out to be, but he does have a positive philosophy and has shown loyalty to a struggling club with an old [Poor language removed] for a chairman. If nothing else I'd say he's well prepared for life at Everton.

I'm sure I'll draw criticism from the Martinez detractors that are prevalent in this thread, but after giving it a lot of thought I don't know what else is realistically out there for Everton at this point. A lower league appointment could work, but unlike Moyes they'd be walking into a dressing filled with accomplished, highly-paid internationals, rather than a gang of crocks who couldn't finish the bleep test, as was the case in 2002.
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Great post.
 
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