Current Affairs China and its treatment of minorities

[Deleted member 48881]

China govt sucks but its govt has the support of most of the people. The reason, democracy isn't exactly covering itself in glory these days.

not really.

 

[Rook]

not really.

Among most chinese there is widespread thought that change has to happen but it needs to happen slowly.

I'm sure that most chinese would love to have a more vibrant democracy like Germany or the Nordic countries over their own. However there is a general fear that if the govt falls apart it will collapse into an even much worse olgiokleptocracy ala Brasil/philliphines or say the even the united states.

 

[davek]

Among most chinese there is widespread thought that change has to happen but it needs to happen slowly.

I'm sure that most chinese would love to have a more vibrant democracy like Germany or the Nordic countries over their own. However there is a general fear that if the govt falls apart it will collapse into an even much worse olgiokleptocracy ala Brasil/philliphines or say the even the united states.

If China fell apart it'd be like The Former Soviet Union on steroids: a gangster's paradise with "oligarchs" with small armies carving out their own sectors.

The CCP might not be perfect but they are infinitely better than a country going back to the Warlord Era of the early 20th Century.

 

[Zatara]

They are EVERYWHERE

This RS basically confirming that he supports murderers...interesting.

Human Rights = CANCER ?!?!?!

 

[Deleted member 48881]

KSA and China are my two most hated countries ever. (the governments, not the people, I shall note) anyone who defends these lose a lot of respect from me. Not that they would care though.

 

[Axlswhk]

Among most chinese there is widespread thought that change has to happen but it needs to happen slowly.

I'm sure that most chinese would love to have a more vibrant democracy like Germany or the Nordic countries over their own. However there is a general fear that if the govt falls apart it will collapse into an even much worse olgiokleptocracy ala Brasil/philliphines or say the even the united states.

I’m not sure if most of them believe that mate. They recognise the need for change but change does not necessarily include removing ccp. With China leaping incredibly in terms of development and wealth, most believe ccp are doing the right thing:

With the great firewall limiting internet access and a controlled media, most of them were only fed with and believe party rhetorics.

The education is another problem. Similar to North Korea, design to be loyal and resent foreign influence, but at a milder level.

in general I don’t think a revolution will surface within China. The collapse of the economy might trigger unrest but it will never be organised enough to form a revolt due to the large intrusive surveillance program deployed countrywide.

 

[Paris]

Having slept on it, I like the way @davek thinks.

 

[davek]

Having slept on it, I like the way @davek thinks.

You know it makes sense.

 

[Paris]

You know it makes sense.

It does mate. It really does.

 

[davek]

It does mate. It really does.

Yes. An even handed approach to any subject - seeing the position of all those involved in a dispute and adding geo-political context - is the only way of analysing what's going on in Hong Kong and understanding China's motivations there and the rest of the globe.

 

[Paris]

Yes. An even handed approach to any subject - seeing the position of all those involved in a dispute and adding geo-political context - is the only way of analysing what's going on in Hong Kong and understanding China's motivations there and the rest of the globe.

Exactly.

Like you, @davek , I'd far rather live under the CCP than any government in the world. Except maybe Vanuatu.

 

[davek]

Exactly.

Like you, @davek , I'd far rather live under the CCP than any government in the world. Except maybe Vanuatu.

So you never did give your reaction to this, did you? You know, unbiased commentary from a respected source on US funding of Localist groups in Hong Kong?

Leaving aside your crackpot conspiracy theorising, an expert on geo-politics, as you seem to imply you are, wouldn't use the Global Times to try and defend their position.

How about the respected - and Washington based - liberal foreign policy journal 'The Diplomat'?

'However, U.S. “investments” and “interests” in Hong Kong have never been limited to trade and economic exchanges. Given Hong Kong’s unique role as an international trade, finance, and logistics center under China’s political arrangement of “one country, two systems” that keeps Hong Kong’s capitalist system and ensures its high autonomy, there have been numerous intangible political activities, including in “gray areas,” in the context of the changing Sino-US relations. For example, providing financial and professional support to opposition groups in Hong Kong in their various movements has been an important tool of U.S. Hong Kong policy, which is “grounded in the determination to promote Hong Kong’s prosperity, autonomy, and way of life.” According to the annual reports openly released by the U.S. National Endowment for Democracy, between 2016 and 2019, over $2.39 million in grants were dispatched to different agencies to support democratic or human rights movements mainly in Hong Kong, including the Solidarity Center, Justice Centre Hong Kong Limited, and International Federation of Journalists (Asia Pacific).

Since the spring of 2019, opposition groups in Hong Kong have gone far beyond peaceful demonstration, and many of them advocate “lam chao,” which roughly means “self-destruct together.” Nevertheless, the U.S. Congress passed several important bills on Hong Kong in a brief time in late 2019, including the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019, which would pose diplomatic action and economic sanctions against Hong Kong in certain scenarios. Also, an article in the Further Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2020 demands that not less than $1.5 million (from the State Department’s Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor) shall be made available for democracy programs in Hong Kong, including legal and other support for democracy activists.'

https://thediplomat.com/2020/05/what-are-americas-interests-in-hong-kong/

The US are in up to their necks in Hong Kong and they have their proxies doing their bidding in the many Localist groups they fund.

 

[Paris]

So you never did give your reaction to this, did you? You know, unbiased commentary from a respected source on US funding of Localist groups in Hong Kong?

I gave my reaction about 30 minutes ago. You replied to it.

 

[davek]

I gave my reaction about 30 minutes ago. You replied to it.

It wasn't much of a focussed reply.

Maybe you can give your thoughts on the content of the piece....and tell me whether The Diplomat too hold "crackpot conspiracy theories" on US involvement in Hong Kong and their funding of localist groups in particular?

I'll link you to the article:

What Are America’s Interests in Hong Kong?

The hardnosed new U.S. approach to Hong Kong may actually end up undermining U.S. interests in the region.

thediplomat.com

 

[Paris]

It wasn't much of a focussed reply.

Maybe you can give your thoughts on the content of the piece....and tell me whether The Diplomat too hold "crackpot conspiracy theories" on US involvement in Hong Kong and their funding of localist groups in particular?

I'll link you to the article:

What Are America’s Interests in Hong Kong?

The hardnosed new U.S. approach to Hong Kong may actually end up undermining U.S. interests in the region.

thediplomat.com

We just have to look to see how the Americans got their claws into South America to overthrow peaceful left-wing governments in order to install 'favourable' right-wing despots to ward of the communist 'threat'. Then we can look more recently at places in the Middle East, where the Obama administration initially gave finances and props to ISIS in order to cause anarchy in Syria. There is no doubt that the Americans have their claws in Hong Kong and Taiwan, and I'm just delighted that the CCP doesn't have its claws where it doesn't belong.