Billy's future

[billycopper]

I have no problem at all with his work rate and he certainly isn't lazy. In all seriousness tho, I don't think he could outrun Brede Hangeland.

He's not two footed either. He can strike a ball with either foot fairly hard, very hard in the case of his left, that's about it. I bet you he's used that same technique since he was about 11 years old and never had anything about it coached. It's just put all your weight into it, aim at the goal and hope that the strange trajectory makes it go in. If someone showed me footage of him bulleting shots into a specified part of the goal over and over again I'd take it all back.

I can't believe you think that he's 'technically amongst the best players we have'.

If scoring goals from distance only requires a hard shot why aren't more players at Everton or even in the league doing it on a regular basis? How many times do you see Bily misconnecting with the ball and sending it in to row z? How many other players can make the ball move so wildly, as it did going past the Wolves keeper? Arteta can't even get a shot on target from a freekick at that distance, nevermind a moving ball while he's being closed down. Ronaldo was able to achieve 'strange trajectory' on his strikes, deceiving the keeper. Is that down to him being 'unorthodox' or being a skillful manipulator of the ball who had put hours of practice in to his craft? Bily could be a massive asset to us, if we can harness his ability. Hiddink singled him out from the Russia team in a recommendation to Moyes. I tend to think he's a fair judge of a player.

 

[Kay20]

Is the cold truth. Were not in a position to be carrying passengers at the moment either.

A few boss goals doesn't mask him being absolute crud in possession if placed under any sort of pressure.

Accept it was a bad buy, cut losses and move on. Its best for both club and player.

^this. In business terms he's a sunk cost. Stop trying to make up the fee and sell for something reasonable and move on.

 

[billycopper]

http://www.footytube.com/video/everton-aek-athens-sep17-22961

This was Bily's full debut. He delivered four corners. We gained another corner from two and scored from the other two. He did well to get the ball to Pienaar under pressure for him to score the third. Every time they broke, he ran back to cover Baines. He tackled back at the corner flag. Every time his full back got the ball he started sprinting ahead for a pass. He also showed great imagination to curl a ball along the deck that nearly put the striker through. If he played like that every week I would be delighted.

 

[Brownie]

If scoring goals from distance only requires a hard shot why aren't more players at Everton or even in the league doing it on a regular basis? How many times do you see Bily misconnecting with the ball and sending it in to row z? How many other players can make the ball move so wildly, as it did going past the Wolves keeper? Arteta can't even get a shot on target from a freekick at that distance, nevermind a moving ball while he's being closed down. Ronaldo was able to achieve 'strange trajectory' on his strikes, deceiving the keeper. Is that down to him being 'unorthodox' or being a skillful manipulator of the ball who had put hours of practice in to his craft? Bily could be a massive asset to us, if we can harness his ability. Hiddink singled him out from the Russia team in a recommendation to Moyes. I tend to think he's a fair judge of a player.

I've already said it's not necessarily a bad technique - in fact as I said it's often this kind of technique that results in goals. Ronaldo is a good example, many other players have developed techniques like that to make the shot difficult to save. And you're right many players aren't good at shooting from distance at all because they can't produce enough power. Arteta actually had a period where he was banging them in from freekicks, but he lost the technique after his injury and hasn't really tried it since.

The difference is players with good technique can do these different things, try them out and use them depending on the situation. But they always have their standard technique to fall back on that they use for the large majority of their play. Bilya doesn't have that, all he has is his individual way of playing football that works well for certain things. Again, if I saw him pinging 40 yarders into a hoop time after time, or practising shooting, hitting the bottom right of a goal over and over - I'll change my opinion.

Also that nutmeg you talked about was luck and I have seen him misconnect on several occasions, but instead of nailing it into row Z he just falls over himself and the ball bobbles past him.

 

[Silas]

I've already said it's not necessarily a bad technique - in fact as I said it's often this kind of technique that results in goals. Ronaldo is a good example, many other players have developed techniques like that to make the shot difficult to save. And you're right many players aren't good at shooting from distance at all because they can't produce enough power. Arteta actually had a period where he was banging them in from freekicks, but he lost the technique after his injury and hasn't really tried it since.

The difference is players with good technique can do these different things, try them out and use them depending on the situation. But they always have their standard technique to fall back on that they use for the large majority of their play. Bilya doesn't have that, all he has is his individual way of playing football that works well for certain things. Again, if I saw him pinging 40 yarders into a hoop time after time, or practising shooting, hitting the bottom right of a goal over and over - I'll change my opinion.

Also that nutmeg you talked about was luck and I have seen him misconnect on several occasions, but instead of nailing it into row Z he just falls over himself and the ball bobbles past him.

I have seen the same but I have also seen Osman and several others do the same. I think it's easy to highlight it in Bily because he has been largely poor in his limited appearances.

 

[billycopper]

Bily scored 9 goals for Lokomotiv Moscow in 2005, when he was aged just 20. He scored 8 in 2007 and 9 again in 2008. The last feat was in 28 games- a 1 in 3 record. His overall record for them is better than 1 in 5, a record that he continued in Europe. As far as Everton are concerned, Cahill has by far been our top scorer from midfield in every year except 2006-7. Since our strikers are unlikely to record large tallies, if Bily could contribute as much as Tim in front of goal it could really push us up the league.

Bily was Russia's Young Player of the Year in 2004 and in 2007, aged 22, he captained Lokomotiv. The lad has real pedigree.

 

[Tubey]

Bily scored 9 goals for Lokomotiv Moscow in 2005, when he was aged just 20. He scored 8 in 2007 and 9 again in 2008. The last feat was in 28 games- a 1 in 3 record. His overall record for them is better than 1 in 5, a record that he continued in Europe. As far as Everton are concerned, Cahill has by far been our top scorer from midfield in every year except 2006-7. Since our strikers are unlikely to record large tallies, if Bily could contribute as much as Tim in front of goal it could really push us up the league.

Bily was Russia's Young Player of the Year in 2004 and in 2007, aged 22, he captained Lokomotiv. The lad has real pedigree.

He certainly has.

It's a shame he performs like the excrement of a common dog when he pulls on a blue/pink shirt in England really.

 

[billycopper]

I've already said it's not necessarily a bad technique - in fact as I said it's often this kind of technique that results in goals. Ronaldo is a good example, many other players have developed techniques like that to make the shot difficult to save. And you're right many players aren't good at shooting from distance at all because they can't produce enough power. Arteta actually had a period where he was banging them in from freekicks, but he lost the technique after his injury and hasn't really tried it since.

The difference is players with good technique can do these different things, try them out and use them depending on the situation. But they always have their standard technique to fall back on that they use for the large majority of their play. Bilya doesn't have that, all he has is his individual way of playing football that works well for certain things. Again, if I saw him pinging 40 yarders into a hoop time after time, or practising shooting, hitting the bottom right of a goal over and over - I'll change my opinion.

Also that nutmeg you talked about was luck and I have seen him misconnect on several occasions, but instead of nailing it into row Z he just falls over himself and the ball bobbles past him.

In the Wolves game he hit that peach and then missed a sitter. Yes, maybe he could work on his focus a bit. If he's trying things though, they're not always going to come off.

For some wierd reason we put newbies on corner duty. It's happened with Bily, Donovan and Gueye. I'm not sure whether it's because we have so little faith in our current takers that we think we might as well try something new or because we find it a chore. But if you look at the clip of Bily taking corners against AEK they dropped right in the danger zone. Of course the opposition defending wasn't up to much but, generally speaking, we can't normally beat the first man. If Bily can put the ball on the head of Distin, Cahill, Fellaini or Saha like that we might actually start scoring from set pieces.

So you're saying that Bily is a one trick pony? I wholeheartedly disagree. The ball most definitely goes where he places it. If you look at some of his goals he knows what positions to take up in the box. That is a gift in itself.

 

[billycopper]

He certainly has.

It's a shame he performs like the excrement of a common dog when he pulls on a blue/pink shirt in England really.

We'll have to agree to disagree. His performances have lacked consistency, but he's been in and out of the side. Anichebe and Osman (for a few months aside) get away with far more than Bily could.

 

[chicoazul]

Am I thinking of a different player here?

I must be because the one I'm referring to has had two seasons and plenty of opportunity, including the direct competition for his position sold, and been for the most part terrible.

 

[Brownie]

In the Wolves game he hit that peach and then missed a sitter. Yes, maybe he could work on his focus a bit. If he's trying things though, they're not always going to come off.

For some wierd reason we put newbies on corner duty. It's happened with Bily, Donovan and Gueye. I'm not sure whether it's because we have so little faith in our current takers that we think we might as well try something new or because we find it a chore. But if you look at the clip of Bily taking corners against AEK they dropped right in the danger zone. Of course the opposition defending wasn't up to much but, generally speaking, we can't normally beat the first man. If Bily can put the ball on the head of Distin, Cahill, Fellaini or Saha like that we might actually start scoring from set pieces.

So you're saying that Bily is a one trick pony? I wholeheartedly disagree. The ball most definitely goes where he places it. If you look at some of his goals he knows what positions to take up in the box. That is a gift in itself.

I agree if he could cross a ball with that consistency he'd be a lot easier to rate highly. And I also agree he gets in some good attacking positions, that was one of my two things about him.

 

[billycopper]

Am I thinking of a different player here?

I must be because the one I'm referring to has had two seasons and plenty of opportunity, including the direct competition for his position sold, and been for the most part terrible.

Bily has made 26 league starts for us in 2 seasons and has scored 8 goals. Just over 1 in 3. Since Pienaar left this is the opportunities that Bily has had.

Liverpool- 9 mins.
West Hamm- 22 mins. Goal.
Chelsea- 90 mins.
Arsenal- 65 mins.
Blackpool- 70 mins.
Bolton- 60 mins.
Chelsea- 20 mins.
Sunderland- 7 mins.
Reading- 46 mins.
Newcastle- Unused sub.
Birmingham- 4 mins.
Fulham- 13 mins.
Villa- 90 mins.
Wolves- 82 mins. Goal.
Blackburn- 90 mins.
United- 46 mins.
Wigan- Unused sub.
City- Unused sub.
West Brom- 18 mins.
Chelsea- Suspended.

So he's played the full game three times in that time and the longest run of starts he's had has been four games. He must be expecting to get the hook every time he plays. He's had pressure on his place from Gueye, Arteta, Osman and even Forshaw. Bily's not an impact player. He can't come on and suddenly alter the pattern of the game. As I keep saying, Ossie has had 10 years and far more of a fair crack of the whip to show what he's capable of. I think we're expecting a lot from someone who only in his second year in the country. The fact that his record almost identically matches Krancjar's for Spurs in terms of goals to games is a massive credit to him.

 

[billycopper]

I agree if he could cross a ball with that consistency he'd be a lot easier to rate highly. And I also agree he gets in some good attacking positions, that was one of my two things about him.

I'm not sure whether it's been coached in to him to let Baines go outside, but he just doesn't seem to be getting in to crossing positions like he did when he first joined us. I'm certain that he could be a brilliant supply line to the forwards.

 

[chicoazul]

I've watched him play plenty mate and really hoped he'd come good but it's plain to see that he's not cut out for English football.

 

[Neiler]

I dont think the lad can cut it to be fair, i think he has talent, but i dont see the potential there for him to impact, he wont adjust to the league IMO.

He would be better of making a career for himself in Russia.