A concern about Martinez's approach

[Blackwatch1878]

Be More concerned if bill sells our best players

 

[nigelcoyb]

Everton legend Graeme Sharp has told new manager Martinez points and not performances must remain the priority.

“The football under David Moyes towards the end of his time in charge was excellent and enjoyable to watch,” said Sharp. “And most importantly, it got results.

“There’s no use playing all this pretty passing football if you aren’t going to turn it into points. You can talk all you want about systems and formations, but it means nothing unless you are getting victories.

“But I’m sure the fans will get behind the new manager, because they will be able to see what he is trying to do.”

Sharp added: “Supporters are going to see a lot more passing than maybe they have been used to during the past decade.

“The keeper will be throwing the ball out more, the team will try to play more out of the back and there won’t be as many long balls bypassing midfield.

“The fans will have to be patient but the one thing everyone must remember is that it’s all about winning.”

Read more: Liverpool Daily Post Graeme Sharp: Don't sacrifice substance for style - Everton FC News - Everton FC - Sport - Liverpool Daily Post http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk...news/2013/08/08/99623-33702690/#ixzz2bMCuOgm4

The mindset of "best of the rest" in the league despite it meaning 'eff all captured terrifically by Sharpie there.

I've always said it comes down to expectations, if EFC not competing in any meaningful way but avoiding relegation fights is for you then attempting change will have you trembling in your trainers.

 

[neil999]

it isnt JUST about winning tho, no-one would watch football otherwise

 

[barkleys splinter]

it isnt JUST about winning tho, no-one would watch football otherwise

But it is today -- or you end up going bankrupt.

 

[degsy]

...I posted after the R.Madrid game that I had concerns that RM was trying to change things too quickly. Manager's have an ego and want to stamp their own identity on a team. RM wont want a continuation of the Moyes model, but I suggest the transformation should be gradual. Centre halves playing like Beckenbauer is not a natural fit for our lads, so imposing his own way immediately is high risk.

what he said...
If Moyes was -1, all we need is a slight tweak to +1, no need to throw the Everton baby out with the Moyes bathwater.

And maybe the 3ATB need to be closer when defending, but that is the job of the wingbacks ( Oh and the Coach to tell them )...doing the 'BACK' bit of the wingback making it a back 5 with the 2 retreating players making the 3 come together to let them in.

Like what I said before, Moyes was not for changing in the face of circumstances...it must be right coz It's what I think IS right and therefore it is QED.
and if Martinez gets just as dogmatic in his own way, then it's MOB MkII

Flexability, horses for courses, round pegs only in round holes, sq pegs for the sq holes and 'koff the asreholes.

Until you get the players you want and need, you have to play the best system that suits what you HAVE got....nevermind if it doesn't the dogma or theory....I think it's called the real world aka pragmatic

 

[D410]

...I posted after the R.Madrid game that I had concerns that RM was trying to change things too quickly. Manager's have an ego and want to stamp their own identity on a team. RM wont want a continuation of the Moyes model, but I suggest the transformation should be gradual. Centre halves playing like Beckenbauer is not a natural fit for our lads, so imposing his own way immediately is high risk.

Fans talked about Moyes being stubborn but he racked up the points, yet if Bob is stubborn and forces a system on the players that they cannot play then no points and beeing stubborn will be a real headache.

If he has to go out and buy the players to make that system work then it,s all ready too late with the season about to start in 2 weeks.

 

[sportbillyblue]

Fans talked about Moyes being stubborn but he racked up the points, yet if Bob is stubborn and forces a system on the players that they cannot play then no points and beeing stubborn will be a real headache.

If he has to go out and buy the players to make that system work then it,s all ready too late with the season about to start in 2 weeks.

Totally agree, He was never going to completely overhaul the team and no one should realistically have expected that. However I think Martinez has to get a better understanding of the resources at hand, their capabilities and to a degree adapt his ideas and philosophies accordingly. For example it has long been considered by many in GOT that Baines is more effective playing from deep in a traditional LB position, so why force him to play as a wing back where he has been less effective in this pre-season ? Frankly the only difference I've seen so far is that our CB's playing it around at the back, has he never watched Jags play (let's face it passing is not his strong suit) and Distin (FA cup semi not so long ago) ?

I don't think he understands the players yet .. I am also less than impressed by the players that have been brought in. IMO the OP is right to voice his concerns and he's not alone. The fate of this great club is in the hands of a genial bloke with an average record at smaller clubs and he has to contend with a conniving, sneaky chairman like Bill. I pray that it won't end in tears.

 

[D410]

Totally agree, He was never going to completely overhaul the team and no one should realistically have expected that. However I think Martinez has to get a better understanding of the resources at hand, their capabilities and to a degree adapt his ideas and philosophies accordingly. For example it has long been considered by many in GOT that Baines is more effective playing from deep in a traditional LB position, so why force him to play as a wing back where he has been less effective in this pre-season ? Frankly the only difference I've seen so far is that our CB's playing it around at the back, has he never watched Jags play (let's face it passing is not his strong suit) and Distin (FA cup semi not so long ago) ?


I don't think he understands the players yet .. I am also less than impressed by the players that have been brought in. IMO the OP is right to voice his concerns and he's not alone. The fate of this great club is in the hands of a genial bloke with an average record at smaller clubs and he has to contend with a conniving, sneaky chairman like Bill. I pray that it won't end in tears.

I thought about this today a lot IF and NO ONE including ME WANTS TO SEE THIS HAPPEN but if it went wrong badly, I would compare this to the Mike Walker appointment.

Hopefully BOB will be more pragmatic and will pull back on the "no fear" a bit.

 

[dead_soft]

But it is today -- or you end up going bankrupt.

No, it's not. Football is clearly not just about winning or everyone would watch the best team and that would be it.

Also, if Sharp says something, it's generally wise to take an opposing view. Comes out with spectacular crap.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

The mindset of "best of the rest" in the league despite it meaning 'eff all captured terrifically by Sharpie there.

I've always said it comes down to expectations, if EFC not competing in any meaningful way but avoiding relegation fights is for you then attempting change will have you trembling in your trainers.

I've no idea how you arrived at that conclusion based on that interview, mind boggling tbh.

Sharp is speaking the truth, it's always about results first, style second, anyone who says it isn't is deluded beyond belief.

Of course you'd rather win with style, but you'd rather win first ffs.

 

[larrygobfiend]

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/fans-decide-new-everton-fc-5677739?

Some nice comments on Roberto towards the end from Robert there. Furious at FIFA though, should be Pro Evo.

Team Pes all the way mate. Not many of us left now though.

 

[flowboy]

Now hard not to pick through them and forget that they are just glorified training sessions. Still excited, think most of our players suit a passing style and didn't see enough of it. The balance may take awhile but hopefully everyone including Martinez is up for learning along the way. Nice to be on a roller coaster rather than a merry go round, and even better we don't have to share it with arrogant no marks like Rodgers, Gerrard and Suarez

+1.

It's going to be so much fun. Always thought Martinez had his players at Wigan giving their all for him, but just a twist of fate they only hit their run of dominant winning flowing-football towards the very end of their last two seasons. Get some results in early Roberto. Barca also trust him, and I think rate him highly.

 

[Timak]

+1.

It's going to be so much fun. Always thought Martinez had his players at Wigan giving their all for him, but just a twist of fate they only hit their run of dominant winning flowing-football towards the very end of their last two seasons. Get some results in early Roberto. Barca also trust him, and I think rate him highly.

His record in Premier League games is shocking.

As I've said on here before he is a very young manager, and plenty of greats like Wenger, were relegated at similar stages in their careers, so I am remaining positive he'll improve.

But he'll need to quickly find ways of picking up points when the team plays badly. Something he failed spectacularly at with Wigan.

 

[sportbillyblue]

I thought about this today a lot IF and NO ONE including ME WANTS TO SEE THIS HAPPEN but if it went wrong badly, I would compare this to the Mike Walker appointment.

Hopefully BOB will be more pragmatic and will pull back on the "no fear" a bit.

funny you should mention him, same thought crossed me mind too. I remember Walker's appointment was seen as a bold move, generated a lot of excitement and high expectation and so recent to the club's most successful era .. and then.

 

[nigelcoyb]

I've no idea how you arrived at that conclusion based on that interview, mind boggling tbh.

Sharp is speaking the truth, it's always about results first, style second, anyone who says it isn't is deluded beyond belief.

Of course you'd rather win with style, but you'd rather win first ffs.

Sharp is running the story everything was hunky dory previously ie we were winners playing good stuff.

A quick perusal of any Everton forum shows that as far from universally accepted indeed a goodly portion of fans point to the known regular failures as evidence that "winning" didn't happen enough.

Those of a certain expectation level counter with "it was great" which is their prerogative but thinking otherwise leads to only one conclusion - change MUST happen.

To believe players bought by Moyes to play a certain simplistic way will cope immediately with a more skilled approach without problems from day one is simply not realistic - there again eulogising the previous regime as "winners" is surely just a bit of fun - so I don't take Sharp too seriously these days.