A concern about Martinez's approach

[Brennan]

All this talk of 'winning' under Moyes is funny really. He bottled every chance we had of getting our hands on a trophy. Martinez won the FA Cup.

 

[toffeejack]

I don't need to use selective facts from Opta.

It is clear from a glance at the league table that Wigan under Martinez were no good. If you want to add a caveat to that stating the financial pressures they operate under then you also have to do that for Moyes. And it is obvious that Everton "overachieved" far more than Wigan if you do.

They won a cup which was a huge achievement but so did Birmingham under McLeish and you aren't clamouring for him.

you do realise martinez is only 39 right? he's got so much years ahead of him as a manager and so much to learn, yet he's already won a league title and the FA Cup managing two very small clubs.

despite his age, he's already landed a bigger job mccleish has in his whole career. He's won more than moyes has in his career with smaller clubs, smaller budgets and players of a much lower quality.

 

[Essex Blue]

Martinez won the FA Cup.

Which clearly means he will do it again.

The concern is that Martinez will do even worse than Moyes did.

He has to be given a chance I agree, but I can't stand his obsession with buying crap Wigan players, or the idea that supposedly superior football comes with the consequence of a lesser points total.

 

[TheFinnFan]

All this talk of 'winning' under Moyes is funny really. He bottled every chance we had of getting our hands on a trophy. Martinez won the FA Cup.

nail on the head, mate

 

[D410]

I don't disagree with any of that. Under Moyes first and foremost we were hard to beat. Hopefully we'd nick a goal and hang on to it but, if not, a draw wasn't too bad. I think there was a change in the league generally last season though where there was less emphasis on defending and more on trying to outscore the opposition. And, if teams are going to come at us more, it's going to be difficult to win games unless we're more clinical on the counter attack.

Martinez needs to tweak the way we play and that will involve a period where players will need to 'unlearn' some of Moysie's philosophies and learn new ones. I always had my doubts whether, if we did make the CL under Moyes, top class European sides would make our pressing game look like it came from the dark ages. Hopefully we can evolve under Roberto and play in a manner benefitting the School of Science.

As I've said before I don't think we'll achieve many less points next season than we did last season. We drew 15 games (the joint most in the league), so there are plenty more points still to be played for. I think that Goodison will continue to be a fortress and, given that Wigan won away at Spurs, West Brom, Southampton, Reading and Villa last season I don't see why our away form should suffer too much either.

Any team that plays us will be looking at bob,s system and will just press up on our back line until we make a mistake. They know and our players know we don,t have the natural skill set to play that system. In tandem, most teams will cope with our ability to try unlock the door in terms of the last third of the pitch which only leaves Kevin as the only lad who has the X factor.

Over to you Bob..2 weeks to go.

 

[Groucho]

Hes trying different things, different players, pretty sure it will settle down when the Season starts.

Its pre-season, new manager, some new players, perfect time to mess around a little bit, think the Betis game will give us our best clue of formation and players.

Totally agree

 

[tim cahill]

Any team that plays us will be looking at bob,s system and will just press up on our back line until we make a mistake. They know and our players know we don,t have the natural skill set to play that system. In tandem, most teams will cope with our ability to try unlock the door in terms of the last third of the pitch which only leaves Kevin as the only lad who has the X factor.

Over to you Bob..2 weeks to go.

This is a bit of a worry. We beat Swansea last year quite comfortably just by marking their defenders when the keeper had the ball. Forcing them to go long. As long as we've got a plan B then it's fine though.

 

[D410]

This is a bit of a worry. We beat Swansea last year quite comfortably just by marking their defenders when the keeper had the ball. Forcing them to go long. As long as we've got a plan B then it's fine though.

Moyes understood that the best form of defense was to get the ball high up the pitch and pin teams back and he spiced it up with pushing mop head of the front to challenge for the hoof ball and get on the end of a cross.

 

[tim cahill]

Moyes understood that the best form of defense was to get the ball high up the pitch and pin teams back and he spiced it up with pushing mop head of the front to challenge for the hoof ball and get on the end of a cross.

Against Valencia we were certainly over passing it in defense. Couldn't get out of our half because they were pressuring us and no one wanted to go long. You're right though last year we were keeping possession really well in the oppositions half, which is far better than in our own half!

 

[D410]

Against Valencia we were certainly over passing it in defense. Couldn't get out of our half because they were pressuring us and no one wanted to go long. You're right though last year we were keeping possession really well in the oppositions half, which is far better than in our own half!

People having a go a sharp today...he knows this already. I think he dropped that statement because he is worried not because he does,nt support Bob.

We,ll see soon enough.

 

[Brennan]

Which clearly means he will do it again.

The concern is that Martinez will do even worse than Moyes did.

He has to be given a chance I agree, but I can't stand his obsession with buying crap Wigan players, or the idea that supposedly superior football comes with the consequence of a lesser points total.

Didn't even come close to implying that did i.

He has no obsession with Wigan players. You call Kone crap, he scored more goals than either of our strikers. Robles is a backup keeper who cost half a million. Alcaraz a back up centre half who was a free transfer, and is not crap at all.

 

[davek]

Against Valencia we were certainly over passing it in defense. Couldn't get out of our half because they were pressuring us and no one wanted to go long. You're right though last year we were keeping possession really well in the oppositions half, which is far better than in our own half!

To get it there though it was pretty basic delivery; easily snuffed out by the better teams. As far as RM is concerned: keeping hold of the ball and passing it is always preferable to getting rid of it and hoping we get on the end of it. There's a danger to retention, yes. But the danger is not an outcome of the method, it's a danger brought about by personnel who aren't up to scratch with handling the basics of playing football when under pressure (and that's a pretty poor reflection on any professional football player).

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Against Valencia we were certainly over passing it in defense. Couldn't get out of our half because they were pressuring us and no one wanted to go long. You're right though last year we were keeping possession really well in the oppositions half, which is far better than in our own half!

Which is exactly what Martinez Wigan side did at Goodison season before last when I rated them one of the worst sides, with the most ridiculous tactics, that I'd seen at our spot.

I know he made massive forward bounds with them over the following 18 months which culminated in a glorious relegation.

I think a lot of the comments about his supposed style are absolute ****e tbh & I too can't wait to read some of the excuses chucked out in the coming months by those who are labelling him as the second coming on here

 

[canuckblue]

Which is exactly what Martinez Wigan side did at Goodison season before last when I rated them one of the worst sides, with the most ridiculous tactics, that I'd seen at our spot.

I know he made massive forward bounds with them over the following 18 months which culminated in a glorious relegation.

I think a lot of the comments about his supposed style are absolute ****e tbh & I too can't wait to read some of the excuses chucked out in the coming months by those who are labelling him as the second coming on here

It's clear no one is ever going to replace Moyes in your eyes. But you've got to let him go, man.

 

[tim cahill]

To get it there though it was pretty basic delivery; easily snuffed out by the better teams. As far as RM is concerned: keeping hold of the ball and passing it is always preferable to getting rid of it and hoping we get on the end of it. There's a danger to retention, yes. But the danger is not an outcome of the method, it's a danger brought about by personnel who aren't up to scratch with handling the basics of playing football when under pressure (and that's a pretty poor reflection on any professional football player).

I agree, but we need to get a balance, otherwise we'll be even more easily snuffed out by the better teams. Wigan conceded a lot of goals because of individual errors last season and Martinez clearly isn't responsible for all of those, but defenders are more likely to make mistakes if they're ****ing about with the ball around the penalty area.