A concern about Martinez's approach

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Some people need to seriously chill out. If anyone expects to see us hit the ground at full steam and rip everyone apart with super togger, you're in for a reality check. There will be a lot of ups and downs, especially early in the season. We,ve just had 11 years of playing a generally rigid formation, change often takes time. I just want to see a more expansive and entertaining brand of football. When the players are more comfortable with that, the results will follow. My glass is half full at the moment.
 
steken1 said:
IMO it's not a knee jerk to have a few concerns. I've got a few myself and I've been pro martinez for a long time.

I think bedding in a new style means we should have played more games pre-season. Some starters will be going into the Norwich game with less than three hours of semi-competitive football under their belts.

It looks as if our first choice 11, or what I imagine it will be, will not have played together for any period of time before the season starts.

Performances haven't been great by and large. We didn't beat Juve, we drew. We looked OK against Madrid and where unlucky but we were very poor against Valencia. All have mitigating circumstances but it'd be nice if there were none.

Obviously there's lots of good things too. Young players getting time, better standard of opposition, trying new styles out and new signings in fairly early.
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Maybe not, but it to early to get nervous right now. I would rather Martinez tried new things, new formations, It was nice to see Barkley not get dragged off after making mistakes for once. We lose games nearly every pre season anyway even under Moyes. We're not going to start the season off winning every game, there going to be some bad downs but we have to have faith as I recken this fella knows what he doing.
 
Martinez may well like 3 at the back but I'm not convinced he knows how to actually play it. Surely the 3 are supposed to be tighter together than what we're seeing at the moment. There's usually 25 - 30 yards between them. And surely the midfield is supposed to show itself to receive the ball from the back 3 when we're attempting to play it out. Not have their backs turned. And surely the ball has to be played far quicker than now.

On the showings so far we've got to be glad we've got Mirallas, since no one else is providing any sort of threat. It's like a bad version of a Moyes team.
 
I'm going to clarify some things here that I was unable to before I went to bed.

It's absolutely fine to question Martinez as a manger and be sceptical, taking a step back and analysing is the sign of an intelligent mid.

However I did feel this thread was influenced by the fact we had one bad pre-season performance, and I was suggesting that people take it easy as we can't let negativity spread so early into Martinez's tenure. He needs time, and if people get on his back after every lack-luster performance then he won't one season.

So by all means, have your doubts and concerns lack all of us do as fans. But let's give Martinez at least 10 games or so before we begin dissecting his tactics and what not.
 
Martinez does,nt get paid to learn on the job, he has took over a team that finshed 6th last season.

The season starts at Norwich not 10 games into the season.
 
The pre-season matches are meaningless.

Having said that, he's fitting a bunch of square pegs into round holes. I've said before that we will struggle with our current squad to play the way he wants. You either suck it up and struggle for a season or two, or you adapt to your players' abilities. I guess you can have an opinion on which path is better, but for me he isn't coming into a broken situation and should be accentuating the talents of the current players, not asking them to re-invent themselves.
 
D410 said:
Martinez does,nt get paid to learn on the job, he has took over a team that finshed 6th last season.

The season starts at Norwich not 10 games into the season.
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Absolutely spot on.

If he wants to change the way we play, then that's fine, but he's paid to deliver results, not tika taka, if he adapts our play over time then fine, but this seeming acceptance that if we struggle to start with it's somehow Ok, is baffling to me like.

He's got the luxury of taking over a managerial role at a club who are doing well, if he delivers less that his predecessor, then that's failure not progression ffs.
 
D410 said:
Martinez does,nt get paid to learn on the job, he has took over a team that finshed 6th last season.
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I'd say it's more the players learning how to play to Martinez's style, that's what's going to take time.

D410 said:
The season starts at Norwich not 10 games into the season.
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I didn't mean let's wait 10 games to play well, I meant let's wait 10 games or so to better analyse the pros and cons of Martinez.
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
Absolutely spot on.

If he wants to change the way we play, then that's fine, but he's paid to deliver results, not tika taka, if he adapts our play over time then fine, but this seeming acceptance that if we struggle to start with it's somehow Ok, is baffling to me like.

He's got the luxury of taking over a managerial role at a club who are doing well, if he delivers less that his predecessor, then that's failure not progression ffs.
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We employed him to manage us his way. That means his style of play.

We will struggle, to a greater or lesser degree. And not only is that okay, but it's unavoidable.
 
pfim said:
The pre-season matches are meaningless.

Having said that, he's fitting a bunch of square pegs into round holes. I've said before that we will struggle with our current squad to play the way he wants. You either suck it up and struggle for a season or two, or you adapt to your players' abilities. I guess you can have an opinion on which path is better, but for me he isn't coming into a broken situation and should be accentuating the talents of the current players, not asking them to re-invent themselves.
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The results are. The games themselves are extremely important as we have a new manager, players and style to adapt to. The PL doesn't give you 10-15 games spare to get to grips with it. It's too tough.

I'm not criticizing him as it may turn out we're perfectly prepared for the season ahead. It just doesn't look like we are at this point.
 
steken1 said:
The results are. The games themselves are extremely important as we have a new manager, players and style to adapt to. The PL doesn't give you 10-15 games spare to get to grips with it. It's too tough.

I'm not criticizing him as it may turn out we're perfectly prepared for the season ahead. It just doesn't look like we are at this point.
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The results and most of the play. You can't gauge how we're adapting when we're playing multiple formations for the first time with a mash-up of lineups and squads.

I mean, the way we've played for the most part supports my opinions from when he was hired in the negative, but you can't read anything into these matches.
 
pfim said:
The results and most of the play. You can't gauge how we're adapting when we're playing multiple formations for the first time with a mash-up of lineups and squads.

I mean, the way we've played for the most part supports my opinions from when he was hired in the negative, but you can't read anything into these matches.
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As you say it's a mash-up of styles and players. The real stuff starts in ten days. Thats why games matter.
 
I think we can all agree that a good performance at Goodison Park on Sunday will help us relax going into the Norwich game.
 
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