A Case for the Defence

[daz4matty]

I did read it. Didn't agree with it but that statement has me confused. You may think building a good team isn't enough but it's clearly a very big plus point

If we are in the bottom 7 of the league the team will be falling apart not building.
Rom and ross want to be playing in europe not having the odd win over a cack villa side

 

[loooweee]

We haven't won any trophies either and there is the link

Aye

 

[silent bob]

Is there any chance this can be a polite, reasoned debate just for once??

If people just want a cult v plotters shouting match there`s plenty of other threads for that already.


Please be nice.

We`re ALL Evertonians!


*apart from kopite lurkers who can feck right off.

 

[oldblue]

If we are in the bottom 7 of the league the team will be falling apart not building.
Rom and ross want to be playing in europe not having the odd win over a cack villa side

And Rom and Ross will probably get us there and there's a chance it'll be with the manager who got the best out of them.
He'll have learnt a couple things from Saturday. Don't show faith in overrated wingers being the big one. And we move on

 

[daz4matty]

And Rom and Ross will probably get us there and there's a chance it'll be with the manager who got the best out of them.
He'll have learnt a couple things from Saturday. Don't show faith in overrated wingers being the big one. And we move on

He has not learnt in 6 years mate he is not going to learn overnight thats for sure.
We play exactly like wigan and they went down and he learnt nothing from that.
Nice man but clueless manager

 

[Boss_Blue]

all our hopes are belong to the

Max rep if that was a Zero Wing reference.

Max neg if you are simply an illiterate pleb xx

 

[oldblue]

He has not learnt in 6 years mate he is not going to learn overnight thats for sure.
We play exactly like wigan and they went down and he learnt nothing from that.
Nice man but clueless manager

If you follow that through though you could argue Barca play like Wigan. Whether it's been done effectively is mainly down to the quality on show and we have enough of that. At the moment results aren't reflecting performance. How much of that is down to the manager I've really no idea. I just don't believe it all is, or that we can exclude the quality he's bought in or had faith in from the argument about whether to persevere.

 

[Styles P Deadball]

It's become a mental thing for the squad now. There's absolutely no reason for everything to fall apart so consistently in the last 15 minutes of virtually every match, except that now they believe it will. Some teams, championship teams, sense that they're always going to stick the dagger in the other team at the end. Other teams fail to finish. Somewhere along the line, this squad has lost their mental toughness. They're sitting around waiting to lose matches because it's now become normal. When it happens, it's somebody else's fault. It's the ref's fault. It's the home crowd's fault. We were unlucky.

No. We're soft now and the squad lacks a sense accountability for any of it.

 

[Blue Cheese]

How can we be better when we are lower than we have been for a decade, 2 seasons on the trot?

 

[davek]

Despite what some of Roberto’s more stalwart supporters (davek) might say, I don’t think it can be denied that there is real pressure on him between now and the end of the season. After almost 2 seasons of poor results, I couldn’t blame anyone for casting their eyes elsewhere for a manager who could unlock the reserves of potential we have undoubtedly accumulated.

I’m in a growing minority now, and it’s not the usual white noise of post-loss kneejerkism shouting us down in the match threads, but a stereo blast of genuine, consistently held concerns about Martinez’ stewardship.

For my part, I was close to wanting him out around January last season, when our poor run of results was compounded by a seemingly unending sequence of dour performances. I wanted to give him until Christmas this season, and while we continued to chalk up way too many numbers in the draw column, I felt we were tangibly closer to something special, as our performances yielded goals and an exciting vision of our on-field potential. But that promise still hasn’t delivered.

Realistically, all our hopes are belong to the FA Cup. Win it, he buys some time, lose it and he may well be walking, barring a serious upturn of form between now and season’s end. Even winning it won’t be good enough for some.

Personally, I think calls to sack him now are insane. Even detractors have to admit that he has strengthened the squad considerably and, in my mind, has laid some incredible groundwork for a unified, attractive style of football that could very well outlast his tenure here. For his signings, his impeccable conduct and, yes, that first season, I think he has bought himself the right to at least finish what he started in this year’s FA Cup. By April, I might well be flexible enough to add my voice to the choir if we fall short in both our remaining journeys.

But until then, I really believe we can achieve something under this manager, and it saddens me to see that so many people have effectively given up, demanding blood after every single poor result and seemingly revelling in the plight of their own team if it pushes Martinez closer to the exit door. Some can’t even bring themselves to credit a good performance if the result is anything less than a win. We’re morphing into indulged Geordies at a rate that brings tears to a glass eye. Get behind your team for the remainder of the season because, at the very least, he won’t be going anywhere before then.

To close, I’d like to pose a question, and I’ll paraphrase the American Republican party a few years ago. Disregarding results and table place (I know there’s some who can’t), and speaking only in terms of long-term indicators like structure, finances, squad development, new talent and a lasting impact on the character and style of our football...

Are we better off now than we were 4 seasons ago?

Good post mate. But there is going to be massive levels of goodwill to RM at the club. He's obviously charmed Bill a long time ago and the relationship seems to have been strengthened during BK's period of illness and convalescence. It's clear also that The Mush has spoken to Roberto and the future roadmap drawn up. It'll take a seismic shift to turn that situation into one of dismissal...and let';s be clear: Everton FC being at the business end of two cup competitions this season and midtable is never in a million years a sackable offence. A year down the line when/if serious money is thrown at the squad and we are where we are in the league - yes, I can see most definitely the case for action then.

The case for the defence is substantial (and this is what the club sees):

• The only manager we've ever had who could crash us through the 70 point barrier that serious players need to hit to get CL spots
• Money spent very wisely to build up an elite group of young players (a massive transformation in the book value of the squad)
• Football that all in the footy industry accept is of a high standard and our best for decades
• The present season as working very well but for the obvious awful home PL form - a season when 60 odd goals have been scored by a team looking for a leader on the pitch to take them forward and make sure their efforts are rewarded

All of that is seen by the decision makers. What will make it easier for them is for the team to put a couple of wins together in the near future to pipe down dissenters who might try and give them a hard time. The future is clear enough to me: it's very bright and it's going to be built on the manager and players we have right now.

 

[maccavennie]

Good post @Prevenger17 but for me he has to go. The only stay of execution would be winning the FA cup as that means he has brought silverware to the table and deserves another crack.

BUT as things stand, he's on thin ice and he has only himself to blame, not the refs, linesman's, home fans making players nervous etc

He has done some fantastic things, I was praising him last night in the u21 thread regarding the system we have of loaning players and hopefully getting them closer to the first team. But his main role is to get Everton football club competing at the top end of the premier league, even more so now that we are in a time where we can spend 28m on a striker and it hasn't financially ruined us. He's delivered the square route of f all in the league for 2 nearly 2 seasons and imo that is a sackable offence.

I'm still praying we win the fa cup though prev and I would love him to turn it around but I just don't see it happening mate.

 

[oldblue]

It's become a mental thing for the squad now. There's absolutely no reason for everything to fall apart so consistently in the last 15 minutes of virtually every match, except that now they believe it will. Some teams, championship teams, sense that they're always going to stick the dagger in the other team at the end. Other teams fail to finish. Somewhere along the line, this squad has lost their mental toughness. They're sitting around waiting to lose matches because it's now become normal. When it happens, it's somebody else's fault. It's the ref's fault. It's the home crowd's fault. We were unlucky.

No. We're soft now and the squad lacks a sense accountability for any of it.

Totally agree with the sentiment about toughness and responsibility missing. But part of that has got to develop from knowing when you didn't do enough as opposed to when it was just one of those things whether bad luck, bad decisions or just that another team did everything right on the day. It's all become murky and if they start to believe they'll just get stick either way then it's hard to develop

 

[Prevenger17]

Max rep if that was a Zero Wing reference.

Max neg if you are simply an illiterate pleb xx

Of course it was a Zero Wing reference you ballsack x



*Googles Zero Wing

 

[blulouie]

Good post mate. But there is going to be massive levels of goodwill to RM at the club. He's obviously charmed Bill a long time ago and the relationship seems to have been strengthened during BK's period of illness and convalescence. It's clear also that The Mush has spoken to Roberto and the future roadmap drawn up. It'll take a seismic shift to turn that situation into one of dismissal...and let';s be clear: Everton FC being at the business end of two cup competitions this season and midtable is never in a million years a sackable offence. A year down the line when/if serious money is thrown at the squad and we are where we are in the league - yes, I can see most definitely the case for action then.

The case for the defence is substantial (and this is what the club sees):

• The only manager we've ever had who could crash us through the 70 point barrier that serious players need to hit to get CL spots
• Money spent very wisely to build up an elite group of young players (a massive transformation in the book value of the squad)
• Football that all in the footy industry accept is of a high standard and our best for decades
• The present season as working very well but for the obvious awful home PL form - a season when 60 odd goals have been scored by a team looking for a leader on the pitch to take them forward and make sure their efforts are rewarded

All of that is seen by the decision makers. What will make it easier for them is for the team to put a couple of wins together in the near future to pipe down dissenters who might try and give them a hard time. The future is clear enough to me: it's very bright and it's going to be built on the manager and players we have right now.

Begs the question where would we be with with 2 "win at all cost top draw players " and i mean Top Draw , in the squad.
This will change now with our new Iranian Overlord , mess up the rest of the season Bobby & you may not be around to find out.
I for one see a very bright future and really do hope Martinez is part of it .Just hope he doesnt give Moshiri a decision to make before then.

 

[JAYTALITY]

Despite what some of Roberto’s more stalwart supporters (davek) might say, I don’t think it can be denied that there is real pressure on him between now and the end of the season. After almost 2 seasons of poor results, I couldn’t blame anyone for casting their eyes elsewhere for a manager who could unlock the reserves of potential we have undoubtedly accumulated.

I’m in a growing minority now, and it’s not the usual white noise of post-loss kneejerkism shouting us down in the match threads, but a stereo blast of genuine, consistently held concerns about Martinez’ stewardship.

For my part, I was close to wanting him out around January last season, when our poor run of results was compounded by a seemingly unending sequence of dour performances. I wanted to give him until Christmas this season, and while we continued to chalk up way too many numbers in the draw column, I felt we were tangibly closer to something special, as our performances yielded goals and an exciting vision of our on-field potential. But that promise still hasn’t delivered.

Realistically, all our hopes are belong to the FA Cup. Win it, he buys some time, lose it and he may well be walking, barring a serious upturn of form between now and season’s end. Even winning it won’t be good enough for some.

Personally, I think calls to sack him now are insane. Even detractors have to admit that he has strengthened the squad considerably and, in my mind, has laid some incredible groundwork for a unified, attractive style of football that could very well outlast his tenure here. For his signings, his impeccable conduct and, yes, that first season, I think he has bought himself the right to at least finish what he started in this year’s FA Cup. By April, I might well be flexible enough to add my voice to the choir if we fall short in both our remaining journeys.

But until then, I really believe we can achieve something under this manager, and it saddens me to see that so many people have effectively given up, demanding blood after every single poor result and seemingly revelling in the plight of their own team if it pushes Martinez closer to the exit door. Some can’t even bring themselves to credit a good performance if the result is anything less than a win. We’re morphing into indulged Geordies at a rate that brings tears to a glass eye. Get behind your team for the remainder of the season because, at the very least, he won’t be going anywhere before then.

To close, I’d like to pose a question, and I’ll paraphrase the American Republican party a few years ago. Disregarding results and table place (I know there’s some who can’t), and speaking only in terms of long-term indicators like structure, finances, squad development, new talent and a lasting impact on the character and style of our football...

Are we better off now than we were 4 seasons ago?

I agree with the FA cup part we win the weekend he has to see out the semi. I don't think he will be sacked either way though. As much as I don't think he is the man to take us forward.

4 years ago..

Oddly despite the table readings, no, we were not in a better position in 2012, we had worse players, smaller budget, cheaper players, and no Billionaire. So I agree with your last thing.

But we were solid on the pitch and put in much better performances than anythin we have served up in two seasons of the real Martinez.

Unfortunately arguing we are in a better position now than then just makes Martinez look worse, if results mean anything in football.